Is this how a MAF tune is supposed to look?

[marksrig]

111019 AS FOUND.hpt

I had this tuned by an experienced tuner with his own shop specializing in GM and on a Mustang dyno. Since getting it tuned, I bought HPT and started learning and reviewing my tune. It surprised me the tuner didn't setup my ID850 injectors at all. The MAF Hz table looks strange as well. The car ran pretty good when I got it back from him best I could tell, but after installing a WB I noticed a lean tip in and rich tip out as well. My VVE table also looks very strange like it wasn't touched but not stock either. Maybe pulled in from a tune that was close.

What do you think?

Normal?

LSA 6.2 with BTR stage 3 PD cam, ID850's, LT headers, 2.5" upper, CAI, cooling mods

111019 AS FOUND.hpt

[ZincGT]

MAF looks normal, VVE can look weird at times, not sure if that has been touched tho. The injector offset has not been touched, injector flow rate has been changed but its not in line with Data from ID, with that being said it wont match 100% because of the table limits of 127 (you wont ever see that fuel pressure where the table is maxed out, I would definitely use ID data). Your PE table is rich IMO but you would have confirm on your wideband. 6600 RPM limit seems low with a cam.

[Zultan]

You're tune is set to run off MAF primarily so the VE table isn't coming into play. Probably done this way because it is much easier and quicker to dial in the MAF and have it run smoothly, VE takes more time to tune in properly. PE table does look rich. Tip in/out is a normal function of the ecm.

[RobZL1]

About as minimal effort as possible on this one. Looks like they did your WOT AFR tuning with the PE table instead of the MAF table to me.

EDIT: looked a little deeper- only thing done to tune the cam was add RPM and base airflow. kept stock timing, didn't knock down idle adaptive advance at all, didn't knock down integral table at all. No huge deal, and I bet that cam sounds HUGE with those settings. LOL
Also has it so your intercooler pump won't turn on below 45degF IAT. A little odd in my opinion. And, yes, your VVE is stock and not in use- not a huge deal, almost every shop tunes this way.

[marksrig]

Thanks guys,
Yea Rob, I agree it was a minimal job. I also noticed a change in the PE table and even this noob tuner knows that's a commanded table! I called him up after I got my WB and said I thought it looked rich but he convinced me it wouldn't have made the power it did if it was that rich. I still think his tailpipe WB was getting fresh air contamination.

I'm surprised about the timing. I have a stock tune from the repository so I'll look into that.
Cam sounds good, car runs good, but I expected more from my mods. I'm getting more confident with HPT but always learning. I'll look into the idle adaptive advance to learn more. Oh! One last thing. I saw the injector minimum PW is like 1.9ms at idle then when you slightly push the pedal to about 1000 Rpm they drop to like .7ms. then go up from there. Is this from the MAF adjustment being in the "0" column or idle adjustments?

ever saw a tune with an airflow value in the 0 column before.
Thanks again.

[RobZL1]

I took a look at your tune again- your injector data is not right if you have ID850's. Flow rate, short pulse adder, min pulse, offset vs voltage, etc. are all completely different than my tables for ID850's. I'd start there.

On the timing, I just meant the idle advance and the idle adaptive advance. Most people reduce the adaptive idle spark quite a bit (myself included) and run more like 18-21 degrees base advance with that cam at idle. My integral adaptives are multiplied by about 20%, my base idle spark is 20 deg, and adaptive advance is only 0-2.5 degrees in the first few columns in the P/N tables. Idles very smoothly, and is a very similar cam to yours. There were some changes made to the main HO advance. Looks very similar to mine in the WOT range for similar pulley ratio and cam, actually (although I scaled my airmass up to 2.0). He removed the Gas PE advance adder, which is a good thing in my book but there are many ways to skin the timing cat.

[marksrig]

I've added the ID850 info into the tune from their website. I haven't flashed it yet because it's raining here and I can't take it out, but tomorrow looks better.
Do you think that info now installed will change everything? Of course I watch my WB and knock all the time and log whenever there's something new in the tune all while creepeing up on WOT in steps.

[RobZL1]

Your idle pulsewidth oddity will probably go away, and you'll probably need to retune your maf. I'd take this opportunity to "un-rape" your PE table, too. Did your wideband actually follow all of those steps in your PE table, or was it a flatline at WOT?

[marksrig]

Your idle pulsewidth oddity will probably go away, and you'll probably need to retune your maf. I'd take this opportunity to "un-rape" your PE table, too. Did your wideband actually follow all of those steps in your PE table, or was it a flatline at WOT?

Thanks Rob, I didn't watch the wideband close enough and I wasn't logging when I noticed it. I did notice it fluctuated as RPM's rose but not sure if it's due to those 1.290 cells in the tune. I pulled those out for now. I remember him adjusting that when I was there. He saw a rich spike on his dynos monitor so that's why he adjusted it. At the time, I knew nothing about tuning....still don't LOL.

(man. trans.) odd thing that happened after his tune was if I put the car in Neutral while coasting to a stop, the RPM's will surge until I push the clutch in. I think this has to do with COASTDOWN in the tune, but I've got bigger worries at this point. I don't think I'll ever take another car to him again.

[RobZL1]

Yeah, he should have adjusted the maf to get pe fueling to match what was commanded in the pe table, of course.

You are absolutely correct regarding the clutch in/out behavior. In general, the 6 idle adaptive tables need to be changed to fix that and improve some other odd behaviors with a cam.

[marksrig]

I'm reading Greg Banish's books so I'm picking up a few things. I'll probably try to fine tune the MAF, I'm sure it was done in haste as well. According to Greg, as long as nothing was touched from the air cleaner to the TB, I should be OK. I installed a 10% lower and tested it out the other day and all seemed fine except at 14 psi all of a sudden boost dropped to about 5, then rose to 14 then dropped again. I went into the Torque Management and adjusted my supercharger settings. I think my boost control solenoid was dumping boost. The log was way too smooth and uniform to be belt slip. Gonna take it out today and try it out. I'll try those idle adaptive setting that you mentioned to clearup my coasting issues. I also want to clean up the VVE table and tune fuel transients so I can run a dynamic tune. All in good time. Thanks again for the pointers.

[RobZL1]

You're welcome. I think you'll find the maf needs some work if you're running a CAI. Plus, the injector data is now changed to be correct, so that will influence it. I'd also change the PE to something rich to start with, like 1.35 or more. Flatline it at that number in the pe table, tune the maf to achieve it, then back it down to 1.25 or 1.276 in the pe table, depending on where you want lambda to end up. Mine's at 1.276 (0.78 lambda), and is a fairly standard target on these cars.

As you found, you'll definitely need to remove some nanny limits due to the higher boost.

Vve tuning is a little painful at first, but do-able. Learn about and pay attention to the injector tip temperature, or you'll chase your tail forever. You'll also have to zero all the prediction coefficients once you go blended, otherwise your PE fueling will have weird, unexplainable lean spikes in it. I'll post my current tune for you later.

[marksrig]

run3.hpl

Here's my last test. I'm still -3* from his tune, but I'm not getting any knock except off idle and it's like .1-.5. The WB is fluctuating pretty good not sure why even though fuel pressure is 60 psi and commanded is .76. The boost stutter is gone so it was the Torque Management/Supercharger/Boost Disable settings. I'll tune the MAF up first and see if that doesn't clean up my WB.

[RobZL1]

Looks like you've got something going on with the wideband signal at WOT. It looks normal at cruise and idle, but gets odd at WOT. Your narrowbands and pulsewidths look perfectly normal during the WOT oscillations, so that would say something is going on with the wideband.

I'd push your whole PE table to 1.31 across the RPM band, add maybe 3% to your MAF from 6000Hz all the way up, and diagnose that wideband signal before you go further.

Where is it installed, particularly relative to the narrowbands (since they seem fine)? Could it be leaking upstream? Is the signal wire well connected? Does it have a good power source? Etc., etc.

[marksrig]

The WB is stable in open loop if I'm cruising maybe fluctuating .98-1.00 and pretty stable except in closed loop it jumps around a little and at WOT as you saw. The WB is in a off road pipe just past the collector, maybe a foot from the narrow bands. I've swapped the NB and WB around and it doesn't affect the WB readings.

So I have a lot to learn...I just got back from trying to tune the MAF. So at idle its in the 2400Hz column and I slowly accelerated while holding in each cell for a while to get some stabilization. The numbers were increasingly going down but theres some cars so I cant hold forever. Long story short after the third flash, the WB was showing .96-1.00 depending where I was on the scale. When I flashed the 4th time, the car wouldn't start. I had to abort and flash a good tune in to get home. The MAF curve looks like a straight line going up a linear slope, not a curve. She was starting to really smooth out too. Well more to learn I guess

[marksrig]

In addition to the above comment...The WB is grounded to chassis the same ground as the gauge. The PE table is all at 1.35 currently.
AEM UEGO 30-4110

[marksrig]

WB is on the way back to AEM. I've exhausted their suggestions to remedy the WOT fluctuations. We'll see what they come back with.

[RobZL1]

Here's my current tune. Sorry for the delay- completely forgot.

2014 M6 ZL1.hpt

[marksrig]

Thanks Rob. I appreciate the help.

[marksrig]

Here's my current tune. Sorry for the delay- completely forgot.

2014 M6 ZL1.hpt

Something interesting I found was your Hi Octane spark ROW axis goes to 2.00, mine only goes to 1.36 and cannot be edited in the row axis. Isn't your Z a 2014? When I log spark at WOT I'm off the table so a deeper table would be nice.