LS swap 6.0 LQ9 running rich

[donmcgowen]

I swapped a 2002 LQ9 from an Escalade into my 1968 Camaro. The problem I have is it runs very rich and wont rev over 3k rpm. Takes a lot of peddeling to get there. If you hit the throttle hard the motor sounds strange and it wants to die. Smells a lot like gas.

Anyway, I never tuned anything and have the MPVI2. No codes right now. Also only one O2 sensor is installed. I'm going turbo and have headers going to single exhaust with the O2. Would this cause the rich condition? I would have thought it should have run the same as when pulled minus the O2 sensors, but not sure it would cause this sever of condition. Car starts and idles fine, but doesnt rev. I'm thinking its flooding the plugs when I hit the throttle.

Any ideas what I should do? I have a 1000whp 2015 Mustang remote tuned and I was hoping to do this one myself. I was thinking it should have not needed any tuning yet anyway, but it's very rich.

Thanks.

[5FDP]

You either run both primary o2 sensors or none at all. There is no option to run just one sensor, it doesn't work like that.

So if you don't want to install the other sensor you must setup the tune to run in open loop only with zero o2 sensor, closed loop fuel trim control. The tune will have to be done completely by a wideband o2 sensor.

Improper settings withing the calibration can make it run poorly or weird. Like if you forget to disable certain features or codes. Other factors like what fuel pressure you are running, what fuel injectors are currently installed and so on can change how the engine runs.

Is it safe to assume you kept the drive by wire throttle body, TAC module and pedal assembly?

Did you disable the abuse modes and what transmission are you running??

[vettemakesemwet]

First I would say post a tune and maybe a log. Only having one sensor on a factory tune with that setup makes it stay in open loop. That is one thing. Second, you modified the way it breaths, doesn't matter if it is on the intake or exhaust side. It needs to be tuned. You'll need a wideband. Especially once you go forced induction.

There are tuning schools, online courses, online free tutorials, youtube videos, all kinds of ways to learn. If you have a good understanding of engines, and computers, you can learn to tune. I'm just getting into this, and I am finding more and more stuff I can tweak to make my car run better. Do alot of reading, focus on gen 3 tutorials, set up the wideband, start tuning.

I would recommend getting it tuned for the setup as is now, then tune for the turbo once it is installed. Makes things easier when the foundation is stable.

[donmcgowen]

Thanks bro. So everything is factory as pulled from the truck. Abuse modes not disabled. EGR has been removed so I disables those CELs. I kept the drive by wire and TAC. Currently running a th350 trans.

Thanks for explaining the O2 sensors. I am looking for a wideband but not sure which to use with HPtuners. I have read that the AEM needs a CANBUS which I dont have. I have the MPVI2 standard.

So do you think my O2s would cause this engine to run like this or something else? I have some logs of just revving the engine but not sure how to read for air/fuel and LTFTs. I'm learning as I go. My goal is to get his thing running as it should before doing any real tuning or worrying about the turbo. I just dont know what would cause this to run so rich.

[5FDP]

Without the o2 sensor, you are in the dark completely. Both primary o2 sensors must be installed to show you closed loop fueling with fuel trims. Once the other is there you'd see STFT and LTFT working and the computer can tell you if it really is running rich based on those. Past that, narrowband o2 sensors can't tell you much as they just show then switching lean and rich of stoich (~450mv).

Widebands can be wired into a 5v reference circuit like the EGR circuit in the computer. A custom channel can be created to log the wideband data. Very common thing to do. Lots of threads and youtube video's for setting that up.

Because you aren't running the stock 4L60/65e transmission you need to disable torque mngt and all the abuse modes on the engine side. Leave the transmission type as stock (4L60e) and just disable all transmission related DTC's by setting them to no error reported.

Double check you aren't running more than 58psi of fuel pressure too.

[vettemakesemwet]

5FDP, please feel free to point out any issues with this method. I am using it to log, and it seems to work, but I am always open to suggestions, and would prefer to be corrected than spread bad info.

I use the AEM 30-4110, and set up the serial input into my laptop. Gauge and scanner read same thing, with almost no delay on updates. I did this because I don't have EGR, and don't want to splice into my factory harness for the A/C method. This is a personal preference, I am not sure of the pros/cons of this route.

The canbus AEM is something I would be interested in. Not sure if pro features set is required, and not sure if I can use it on a non CAN car. Wondering this because the MPVI/MPVI2 obd connections have the full 16 pins. My car doesn't have pins in #6 & 14 on the DLC, but I could add them. Was wondering if the MPVI2 would read the CAN if the only thing on it was the AEM. If that would work, Don could do the same.

[donmcgowen]

What I dont understand is why hptuners makes it so difficult to use a wideband. There should just be an option to plug it in and be done. I know splicing some wires isnt that hard, but harder then it should be.

That being said, I am going with the the AEM 4110 unless there is a better option.

[donmcgowen]

Here is a log.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tnaarpcrhb...20rpm.hpl?dl=0

[5FDP]

Two big problems with that log aside from not having working o2 sensor.

Your coolant temp reads -38 degrees, that will cause lots of extra fuel to be used. You need to fix that.

The MAP sensor read 10kpa and does not move, that is another issue. Either the channel is being buggy or the sensor has a real issue with it. For starters try removing the MAP sensor channel from the log and then re-add the channel back in after you re-poll for supported parameters while connected to the vehicle. The re-poll is under the vehicle tab in the tool bar up top.

[vettemakesemwet]

It is as simple as splicing 3-4 wires with the 4110. I went full nerd and made a harness for mine. Tuning is aftermarket. Anything you add to the car is aftermarket. Anytime something that is added that did not come from the factory that built the car, requires something be done for the modification to work. The factory computers do not work with 99.9% of aftermarket add-ons. Especially not a wideband. Tuning and modding is not "plug and play" in the control module sense.

You can use a wideband without HP tuners. Adding in the wideband itself to HP tuners scanner for logging for me took this:
1. Install wideband into car. You have to do this regardless of the brand of the wideband you choose or how you want to log.
1a. To log serial, you have to use a wideband that HP tuners supports. AEM, Innovate, etc.
2. Connect the serial out and ground to the serial connector I bought.
3. Connect the now wired serial connector to a serial RS232 to USB adapter, install the drivers for the serial to usb adapter.
4. Open scanner, and my aem afr to the pid list.
5. Drive, log, tune.

To set up on the AC switch:
1. Install wideband into car. You have to do this regardless of the brand of the wideband you choose or how you want to log.
2. Connect analog wire to A/C or EGR circuit.
3. Add PID in scanner for the A/D or EGR.
4. Drive, log, tune.

In all, to me is alot easier than installing a radio into a car.

[donmcgowen]

Thanks 5FDP. So I dont have the temp sensor connected. I'm trying to figure out if I want to wire to ECU or use external temp guage. Another issue is I have a dual fan that I need to wire in that uses the same temp port in the head. I guess I'll get it wired to the ECU so it will control fuel correctly.

I will check the MAP sensor and repoll. I haven't done anything with that sensor I dont think. It's in the manifold near the rear? This is a truck manifold.

I have tapped the exhaust for both O2 sensors. I'll start it and see how it runs and get another log. I should have working O2 amd the temp sensor fixed. Only issue will be the MAP until I figure out what is wrong with it.

[donmcgowen]

Thanks vette. I ordered the AEM so I'll wire it in and see how it works. I'm good with electrical so it shouldn't be an issue, just more of a pain then it should be in my opinion.

[donmcgowen]

Hey man, thanks for your help. I found my MAP was not getting the signal so I rewired it. Now it seems to be reading. It's still running rich, but if I let it idle and hit the gas, it revs pretty good. But if I keep revving it it still hangs and doesnt want to rev. But I think I'm on the right track.

Still running rich, very smokey from exhaust and getting a backfire here and there. But I'm getting closer now that you showed me what to look for.

Two minutes from someone that knows something could save hours trying to figure it out. I'll keep posting my progress to help others.

Also, I'm getting my wideband tomorrow so I'll try to get it wired up and tune for open loop, whatever the hell that means. Lol.

[donmcgowen]

Can one of you guys take a look at this log. I connected the temp sensor and fixed the MAP. In the tune I disabled closed loop and not running O2 sensors. The engine still runs the same. Still dumping tons of fuel and flooding the plugs, tons of smoke filling the garage that smells like gas.

Log
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dms3jchr77...0Loop.hpl?dl=0

Pic of plug
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lbwzdpnd66...93602.jpg?dl=0

Really could use the help. I have my wideband coming tomorrow but I dont knowing it will help me that much being so new to this.