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Thread: Timing Maps and Configurations

  1. #1
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    Timing Maps and Configurations

    Can someone explain the difference in the timing maps, and the configurations? I think I've figured out what the modes are for, whether its in regen or not. I'm not seeing how the PCM chooses which table to use, in which map and how the configuration relates? It's on a 2015 F350 6.7 Stock

    timing.png

  2. #2
    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Map's 1 -4 are different temperatures then inside each temp zone is different configs or elevation. Then inside there is different modes for things like regen normal and so on.

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    Thank you for replying, Is there a way to tell which map corresponds to each temp range? And which configuration correspond with it?s elevation?

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    I'm looking to gain some highway economy, do you have any personal insights into what changes help these 6.7's economy?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by rboyer25 View Post
    Thank you for replying, Is there a way to tell which map corresponds to each temp range? And which configuration correspond with it?s elevation?
    So each mode relates to a different emissions state. Mode 0 is normal operation, mode 1 is Regen warm up, mode 2 is Regen, mode 3 and 4 are nox and sulphur Regen modes. I will have to check the .bin files for the exact numbers but Map 4 is below 15 or so degrees ect, map 3 is from 15 to 55
    , Map 2 is 55 to 156 and map 1 is above 156. The config tables are selected based on ambient temp, pressure and ECT. Config 1 allows 2 pilots and a main Injection, config 2 allows only 1 pilot and a main. Config 3 allows only main. Config 4 allows all injection events. I'm not sure if the others are ever used.

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    I have bumped timing a couple degrees around cruise in map 1 config 2 mode 0, it seems a bit more responsive, but it seems a little louder, which I don't think is abnormal. What is the safe maximum timing for cruise? Does increasing pilot timing help economy? I've increased rail pressure also, do you have any advice for helping economy?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by rboyer25 View Post
    I have bumped timing a couple degrees around cruise in map 1 config 2 mode 0, it seems a bit more responsive, but it seems a little louder, which I don't think is abnormal. What is the safe maximum timing for cruise? Does increasing pilot timing help economy? I've increased rail pressure also, do you have any advice for helping economy?
    So map 1 config 2 is active when you are above 172 deg f coolant and the ambient temp is above about 20. In my truck I run right around 5 deg at cruise. I actually reduced my pilot mass and bumped the timing a little as well. It definitely rattles a lot more but that isn't bad for it. There's a reason all the old rattly diesels got great fuel economy. It's more efficient thermodynamically when combustion is a fast, hot combustion event very close to tdc. More than anything pilot injection is for emissions and less noise

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    That?s good to know. Is there a rule of thumb as to how much is too much rattle? I know too much timing is bad, but is there a telltale sign when you know you?ve gone too far? I?m trying to learn and a little cautious on everything.

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    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rboyer25 View Post
    That?s good to know. Is there a rule of thumb as to how much is too much rattle? I know too much timing is bad, but is there a telltale sign when you know you?ve gone too far? I?m trying to learn and a little cautious on everything.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aUbIaXeZI4 here is a video of pilot turned off and how loud it is on a single injection event. I personally think it's nice to have a quite engine and not have this much noise but to each his own.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JaegerWrenching View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aUbIaXeZI4 here is a video of pilot turned off and how loud it is on a single injection event. I personally think it's nice to have a quite engine and not have this much noise but to each his own.
    Some pilot is definitely helpful, it is good when the engine is cold. I reduced the mass about 25 percent and bumped up the pilot timing which noticeably improved consumption, at a trade-off of more rattle-to me I prefer the sound. Too much rattle won't necessarily hurt anything. 7.3s and 12v Cummins last 500k. The issue is if you increase main timing too far at higher loads.

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Here is a great video on pilot injection https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGv1hOCxdc4

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    Out of curiosity, what kind of mileage are you seeing? How much improvement did you see after tuning? This thing has left me disappointed with its economy, everything else I couldn't be happier

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    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rboyer25 View Post
    Out of curiosity, what kind of mileage are you seeing? How much improvement did you see after tuning? This thing has left me disappointed with its economy, everything else I couldn't be happier
    I personally get 13-14.5 in the city and 17-18 on the highway doing 80 MPH. I have logged every single fill up and hand calculated my mileage, so my data is very accurate. I had my father in law drive my truck one time and he got the best ever of 19mpg with it 100% stock but he was also going 70mph and trying to get great mileage. I have gone 250 miles with an average of 23.5 doing 80mph but There are days i also get 15mpg going into a headwind on the same highway. Remember we are moving 8k lbs of weight down the road in crappy diesel fuel season. Check for personal bests this summer. What are you getting for mileage? These newer trucks won't see a huge mileage increase from tuning either, they run pretty well in stock form.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaegerWrenching View Post
    I personally get 13-14.5 in the city and 17-18 on the highway doing 80 MPH. I have logged every single fill up and hand calculated my mileage, so my data is very accurate. I had my father in law drive my truck one time and he got the best ever of 19mpg with it 100% stock but he was also going 70mph and trying to get great mileage. I have gone 250 miles with an average of 23.5 doing 80mph but There are days i also get 15mpg going into a headwind on the same highway. Remember we are moving 8k lbs of weight down the road in crappy diesel fuel season. Check for personal bests this summer. What are you getting for mileage? These newer trucks won't see a huge mileage increase from tuning either, they run pretty well in stock form.
    I?m lucky to get 15mpg doing 80 mph. I made a 12 hour trip a few months ago and got 14.6. City is typically 10-11. I don?t expect big numbers in the city at all. But my highway economy is disappointing. I?m going on a 5 hour trip next week, so I?ll be able to test some of the changes I?ve made. Seems my in town has picked up some. I?m hoping for closer to the 17-18 that you?re seeing.

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    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rboyer25 View Post
    I?m lucky to get 15mpg doing 80 mph. I made a 12 hour trip a few months ago and got 14.6. City is typically 10-11. I don?t expect big numbers in the city at all. But my highway economy is disappointing. I?m going on a 5 hour trip next week, so I?ll be able to test some of the changes I?ve made. Seems my in town has picked up some. I?m hoping for closer to the 17-18 that you?re seeing.
    I'm also on stock tires and have a 2.5" level. If you want MPG's sometimes smoothing out your fuel table in the cruse region to prevent adding fuel too quickly and bumping timing 2-3* in your cruse region along with decreasing fuel pressure 1-2k will net some decent gains without much sacrifice in boost response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CKrueg View Post
    Some pilot is definitely helpful, it is good when the engine is cold. I reduced the mass about 25 percent and bumped up the pilot timing which noticeably improved consumption, at a trade-off of more rattle-to me I prefer the sound. Too much rattle won't necessarily hurt anything. 7.3s and 12v Cummins last 500k. The issue is if you increase main timing too far at higher loads.
    When you say "bumped up pilot timing", how much are you going? 2 deg or 5deg? I bumped mine about 2 deg in "map 1 config 2 mode 0" but there is really d any noticable difference. Also I've been trying to get my fuel useage at idle down a bit. I've been trying to figure out which map changes main timing in park because the timing at idle doesn't correlate with any map. I've set every map to 4 deg in the idle range, including all the various modes, and it still is only at 2 deg...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by bstroked View Post
    When you say "bumped up pilot timing", how much are you going? 2 deg or 5deg? I bumped mine about 2 deg in "map 1 config 2 mode 0" but there is really d any noticable difference. Also I've been trying to get my fuel useage at idle down a bit. I've been trying to figure out which map changes main timing in park because the timing at idle doesn't correlate with any map. I've set every map to 4 deg in the idle range, including all the various modes, and it still is only at 2 deg...
    I don't just add a set amount across the board. I use a calculator and set it based on dwell time in ms. For example 1 ms is equal to 6 degrees of crank rotation at 1000 rpms. I also factor in when the pilot injection event ends-at some points the pilot injection itself takes a few deg to complete.