Emissions Readiness Checks - Supercharger + Long tubes

[JFiorito]

Hey guys,

Emissions tests are due for me over here in Illinois. I was thrown a little bit of a curveball when my car would not pass the readiness checks. I have a 2016 Mustang GT (M/T) with the Roush supercharger kit. I'm currently failing Heated O2 sensor and O2 sensor readiness checks. My list of modifications is as follows:

2.3L Roush blower
72mm upper pulley
1050cc injectors
1 7/8" long tube headers (w/ cats)
2 7/8" cat back

While searching the forums I found a thread from several years ago regarding this topic. A user by the name of Jn2 did some pretty in depth investigation and got some cars with similar setups to pass. However, I have not had luck with his suggestions. Per his post I reduced my Tip Temps by 50 degrees across the board:

Tip Temps.PNG

The reasoning behind this was that since the long tubes are larger than the stock manifold, the temps should be slightly lower. Also per his recommendation, I changed all the catalyst thresholds to 0:

Catalyst Thresholds.PNG

I'm not quite sure exactly how any of these fields work. These also differed from Jn2's cars as they were earlier coyotes and had only 3 fields vs my 6. I have driven hundreds of miles on this tune and have done the 40mph (no cruise control) for 5 mins straight drive (fun on a crowded highway...) but am still failing those readiness checks.

I do have P0420 and P0430 set to "no error reported". Looking higher up on the list I also see some other DTC's set to "no error reported" that my last tuner might've changed:

DTC's.PNG

Do these have anything to do with the readiness checks?


Any guidance anyone can provide would be GREATLY appreciated. The clock is ticking to get this guy to pass.



Thanks

[JuiceNA]

I can share my experience working with a 2013 to pass emissions, and my engine is 100% stock. The cat and o2 monitors fought me for a long time.
These are my personal conclusions from watching the monitors and fuel trims.

Setting the P420/430 codes to anything other than stock kept my catalyst monitor from completing. No faults or cel just "incomplete monitor".

Monitors run sooner/quicker if fuel trims are close to zero. Mine were over 10% and would take 2 tanks of fuel to get all to run and usually fail. Once I got fuel trims to be +/-3%, I can get 7 of 8 monitors complete in a few days. After 4 drive cycles of 25 miles with 8 hour cooldown between each, 5 monitors will be complete. LTFT start to move, and the cat, o2 and o2 heater monitors will run if....

And this is the last piece. Those last 3 never ran for me until I fixed my gear ratios/speedometer. There is some code IMO in the OBD2 monitors that keeps those from completing if the load calculations are off.

I have observed this behavior in KWC4 and the Crate_6 control pack strategies. And find the behavior practically identical as far as obd goes.

[JFiorito]

Hm alright, my fuel trims are definitely a bit sloppy... Tuner didn't have time to clean them up when it was on the dyno. I'm a beginner tuner and don't know how to make the proper changes... all I've personally done is mess with the timing tables a little. Planning on buying the Ford tuning course from The Tuning School.

So does that mean to get yours to pass you had to adjust your torque tables on Torque Model -> General -> Torque calculation?

[JuiceNA]

I did not adjust torque tables. I noticed a dramatic change in drivability and the monitors completed much quicker after putting in the actual gear ratios for the magnum xl.

[decipha]

All emissions related parameters need to be set to stock. Changing any threshold will be obvious in mode 6 data and if your sent to an emissions referee they will see that its been changed and then you'll have to go to henry for a stock flash that's documented.

All roush, saleen, svt etc... basically any 3rd party that puts their hands on ford cal's usually screw them up quite a bit. Best bet is changing all emissions related parameters back to stock and as stated get the tune dialed in as well as you possibly can. I'd recommend even taking it a set farther and just running a production cal.

Try to maintain 40-50 mph for 10-15 minutes at a time. Its very difficult in reality but that's the fastest way to set the monitors.

[JFiorito]

When you say production cal, are you saying a Ford tune? My stock tune (which I actually don't have anymore...) Wouldn't drive at all as it exceeded the torque limits under virtually any throttle. I can try and find a standard Roush tune and flash that, but again it would hardly drive as I hit the torque limits. I also threw the new injectors in at the same time as the new pulley before getting the tune so that could also be why it wouldn't drive.

I've seen people reference this mode 6 a lot... Is this some sort of diagnostics protocol? Do all emissions testing facilities use this?

[JuiceNA]

I would like to know more of the emission test and mode 6. As far as I know, atleast here in PA, as long as All 8 monitors are there, 7 completed, no check engine light = PASS.
What would give away 'tampering'?
Yes, I do have a race tune that has only 3 monitors and thats clearly a FAIL for smog.

[yonson]

When you say production cal, are you saying a Ford tune? My stock tune (which I actually don't have anymore...) Wouldn't drive at all as it exceeded the torque limits under virtually any throttle. I can try and find a standard Roush tune and flash that, but again it would hardly drive as I hit the torque limits. I also threw the new injectors in at the same time as the new pulley before getting the tune so that could also be why it wouldn't drive.

I've seen people reference this mode 6 a lot... Is this some sort of diagnostics protocol? Do all emissions testing facilities use this?

Did you start from the Roush cal or something else?

The mode 6 data is basically the results from the PCM after checking for monitors and faults. It's just a small piece of the puzzle that is used by the manufacturers (including Roush) to develop their emissions calibration, mode 1-3, 7, 9 and A are also helpful.

[JFiorito]

Yes. My Roush tune was flashed by a friend of a friend, so I don't have my stock tune. I have my stock Roush tune and what I have now after my dyno session with new pulley/injectors/headers

[JFiorito]

I would like to know more of the emission test and mode 6. As far as I know, atleast here in PA, as long as All 8 monitors are there, 7 completed, no check engine light = PASS.
What would give away 'tampering'?
Yes, I do have a race tune that has only 3 monitors and thats clearly a FAIL for smog.

I think it's the same here in Illinois (government ruining everything). I'm allowed one readiness check to not pass, but from what I've read Heated O2 and O2 sensor readiness checks go hand in hand

[JuiceNA]

Yes, I observed both the o2 and o2 heater monitors complete at the same time. Usually on the 5th or 6th drive cycle of 25 miles with 8 hr cooldown between them.

[yonson]

Yes. My Roush tune was flashed by a friend of a friend, so I don't have my stock tune. I have my stock Roush tune and what I have now after my dyno session with new pulley/injectors/headers

Ok, you are good then. As long as you don't stray too far away from the Roush cal when it comes to emissions side you should be able to get the monitors to run and set, although the LT's will cause some issues. Did you increase the transport delay? If not I would start there usually 15 - 20% is all you need. I can't remember if setting the DTC's as no report will affect it, but I would turn them back on since once you get the cal correct they won't come on anyway...

A little info on the Roush cals, they are developed using the same tools and methodology that Ford uses, just because people don't understand said methodology doesn't mean that they are screwed up... However you have to understand that Roush cals are built with 1 main goal, being 100% emissions compliant, EVERYTHING else is secondary. Every new cal they release has been tested in the emissions lab using the same standards that the other OEM's have to meet which is why it seems to take forever for them to release new applications etc...

[JFiorito]

Alright in terms of emissions settings everything on this current tune should be as how it arrived from Roush. I will increase the transport delay. I actually mispoke on an earlier post, I did have the headers on for awhile before going to the smaller pulley and new injectors. After roughly a week or 2 of driving it threw P420 and P430. Is it possible to avoid these by adjusting other settings? I've read that since the long tubes are larger than stock manifolds the EGTs at the O2s are lower, so you should decrease the expected EGTs?

I'm currently trying to clean up the tune as my fuel trims are over +/-10%. I don't think my torque tables were properly set on the dyno. I constantly see the spark source switching between borderline and torque control. I can also feel it hesitate under partial throttle a lot. I assume this would have an impact on readiness checks?

[innovator]

Look at the tune OS system and compare that to a known up to date OS from ford. Alot of the tunes floating around are OS that are modified and or have been flashed with diablo or sct, both have caused issues regarding completing monitors and correct tuning. As mentioned above the tune should be dialed in pretty well and should be able to complete factory emissions monitors, given that there is no issues with any leaks or equipment issues (Cats/ O2's/ NO o2 extenders and or/foulers!).
Im also in IL and work at a shop where we get vehicles to pass emissions the correct and legal way usually after its hacked by shops trying to cheat, but non the less it is possible.

[JFiorito]

Hm alright I will look into that. I currently returned everything emissions related back to what Roush had. Only change I have made is that I increased the Transport Delay by 50% per the Tuning School recommendation for cars with long tube headers. Also turned P420 and P430 back on. Only problem is I've been flashing a new tune virtually every day trying to address other issues, so I never accumulate enough miles to see if it worked...

So this shop that you work at, would figuring this out be something you guys could do? Paying someone to figure out was going to be my fallback in case I can't figure it out and it becomes crunch time. With the whole virus I have another few weeks to figure it out.

[JFiorito]

Update as to my progress here. I've since worked on dialing in my fuel trims thinking that might help my cause. I've had moderate success here... I turned LTFTs off and DFCO off as well. I performed many drives (making sure to not go into OP or WOT, staying in stoich as much as possible) and tracked my STFT. I progressively made changes to my MAF Airflow vs Period until my STFTs were within about 3%. At this point I turned LTFTs back on and they are a bit larger... Even though my STFTs are still very small, my LTFTs are much larger in particular regions and I don't know why...

LTFT vs STFT.PNG

I have also re-enabled P420 and P430 to see if that made an impact on my readiness checks. So far nothing different there. However, I now have a P420 DTC in addition to not passing the O2 and Heated O2 readiness checks:

DTC's 4.9.20.PNG

Any ideas on where to go from here? Or why my LTFTs are so much larger than my STFTs?

I've attached a log from my drive to work and the tune (DFCO is still turned off if that means anything)

New Tune MAF done4 - Drive 4 - 4.9.20.hpl
Post Dyno - New Tune MAF done4.hpt

[JuiceNA]

I go against the general consensus on LTFT and STFT tuning. I use the LTFT corrections and apply those to MAF transfer corrections. That also means I have to drive the car much longer to get LTFT to even move off Zero. And Im tuning to keep the LTFT as ose to zero as I can.

[JFiorito]

I go against the general consensus on LTFT and STFT tuning. I use the LTFT corrections and apply those to MAF transfer corrections. That also means I have to drive the car much longer to get LTFT to even move off Zero. And Im tuning to keep the LTFT as ose to zero as I can.

My fear is if I lean up the MAF table because my LTFTs are rich, then my STFT's will be lean since they are pretty close to 0 now. I thought the LTFT's were basically long term averages of your STFT's. Am I mistaken?

[JuiceNA]

The way I see it, STFT will always swing a lot to keep emissions in check. LTFT is a filtered feedback on just how much fuel trim correction is really needed.

Once LTFT starts reading other than Zero, the STFT make much smaller corrections. So I want my LTFT to be as close to Zero as I can.

This approach seems to work great on a factory stock engine. And I am super picky about drivability..

[JFiorito]

So I've been adjusting my MAF Period vs Airflow table based on my LTFT and my LTFTs are smaller now, but now my STFTs are super wacky:

LTFT vs STFT 2.PNG

I don't understand the relationship between LTFT and STFT... They don't seem to correspond to one another... Is something else going on?

Attached are the log and tune (DFCO still off):

New Tune Emissions 1 Drive 2 4.10.20.hpl
New Tune Emissions 1.hpt