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Thread: New data. Cammed flat top 5.3 help!

  1. #1
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    New data. Cammed flat top 5.3 help!

    I have a fresh build lm7 based engine. I have changed usual parameters for a cam swap but am having issues with idling still and have lack of idle control in my scanner when the engine is running too.

    Engine is stock LM7 with exceptions of Summit 8706 stage 2 turbo cam, flat top pistons, and dual valve springs.
    Cam Specs:
    Summit Racing SUM-8706: Stage 2 Pro LS Turbo Cam. 226/230 Dur., 113+4, .600/.575 Lift, 3-bolt, 5.3, 5.7, 6.0, 6.2, 7.0, Vortec Truck, LS1 LS2 LS6 LS3 LS7 LQ4 LQ9 LS9, Each

    This motor is in my crawler with a th400 and np205 behind it with 4.56 gearing. At this time, the motor will idle for a short amount of time and needs throttle to start. Only other issue I am having is slightly lower fuel pressure at 55psi, but that will be fixed soon.

    At this point I have done a typical change to target idle tables and airflow tables. This motor will not start without throttle at all. I am not sure if the compression increase is also causing problems to typical changes for cam tuning. Just added the wideband hoping for more answers and it reads 14.7 when unplugged from the o2, but goes to around 11-12 when running. It also remains at around 11 when running and the plugs were pretty carbon coated. It does have times of running fairly good but then will die with any chence of trying to let it idle on its own. Wideband is installed correctly per the manual and is around 24 inches down stream with plenty of exhaust behind it. I also checked for vacuum leaks and came up with nothing.

    I am not sure why this motor will not idle. Also runs rough when giving it gas but will smooth out at higher RPMS. Car will pop off for a quick second when no throttle is given but that is all.

    If someone could even PM me their number or something I would really appreciate ito. I have been trying to get this thing going for quite some time now and can only scratch my head.

    Jeep file 3-24 .hptJeep new wideband 3-24.hplJeep 3 3-24.hpl

  2. #2
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    It also seems that if I change desired RPM in the scanner in special functions while keeping the motor running there are no changes. Only other change I made to the motor was an intake manifold off of a non-egr 5.3. Before I had a manifold with an egr I had blocked off. The old stock 5.3 ran good just had a backfire due to exhaust and an intake manifold leak so I believe my harness and all other hard parts should be fine.

    Also I know the wideband gauge info in the log files stays at 13, but on the gauge it stays in the 10.5-12 range

    On second thought, if anyone would like to call me and help my number is 989-350-8201. Name is Dan.
    Last edited by Daniel196; 03-24-2020 at 04:27 PM.

  3. #3
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    Tried new tune-slightly altered

    Hey guys, So I changed the tune a little but it seems changing the desired idle is still not doing anything. I did get the motor to sit and idle on its own but now it will not do it again. I am really scratching my head but will attach what I got for the time it idled on its own and some files from when it will not anymore. I thought I was onto something with it idling and I was able to rev it up. It would fall on its face during rev up slightly, but I thought it was progress. I guess not...

    Jeep file 3-24 .hptJeep 3-25.hpljeep 3-25 rev up.hplJeep #3 3-25.hpljeep wont idle again.hpl

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=Daniel196;604114]It also seems that if I change desired RPM in the scanner in special functions while keeping the motor running there are no changes. Only other change I made to the motor was an intake manifold off of a non-egr 5.3. Before I had a manifold with an egr I had blocked off. The old stock 5.3 ran good just had a backfire due to exhaust and an intake manifold leak so I believe my harness and all other hard parts should be fine.

    Also I know the wideband gauge info in the log files stays at 13, but on the gauge it stays in the 10.5-12 range

    On second thought, if anyone would like to call me and help my number is 989-350-8201. Name is Dan.[/QUO

    You need to set up your wideband in hptuners so it is reading properly in the scanner for starters

  5. #5
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    Jeep file 3-24 kw tune.hpt

    To start, Open the throttle blade with the adjustment screw until you get the TPS voltage to 0.7-0.72 volt range.
    Load this tune file that I just made for you. It'll be a good start.

    Then you can sort out your wideband and finish the tune.

  6. #6
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    It is saying unable to open your file with a newer version detected. I have 4.4.4 and it says no available updates for me.

    UPDATE: I got it open and written. Still had to use throttle to start the motor but I was able to let off and then control idle with special functions while getting some data logged. Not sure where to go from here. Believe I got the wideband data to log about halfway through- had a bad connection. Also it seems to actually stay running better if I go into special functions and force the closed loop (not sure why I would need this to keep it running)

    Actually running! 3-25.hplJeep finally running 2.hpl
    Last edited by Daniel196; 03-25-2020 at 02:54 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin87turbot View Post
    Jeep file 3-24 kw tune.hpt

    To start, Open the throttle blade with the adjustment screw until you get the TPS voltage to 0.7-0.72 volt range.
    Load this tune file that I just made for you. It'll be a good start.

    Then you can sort out your wideband and finish the tune.
    Also, What other changes can be made so the motor will start without giving it throttle? I also have to keep into the pedal for a minute before it will idle on its own, during this time it is surging. To my understanding, the VE changes, idle speed, and base airflow should have made it start without throttle.

  8. #8
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    Jeep file idle updated.hpt

    try this file, i have updated the fuel tables at idle areas, timing areas at idle and adjusted startup airflow. get a log of how it idles at hot restart.

  9. #9
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    New data logs. Where to go from here?

    Quote Originally Posted by R0G3R View Post
    Jeep file idle updated.hpt

    try this file, i have updated the fuel tables at idle areas, timing areas at idle and adjusted startup airflow. get a log of how it idles at hot restart.
    Ok, I used this file and still needed throttle to get it started, but besides that it seemed to run fairly well. Slight stutter when revving up and it would die if I let the RPM's drop without feathering the throttle back down. Got up to temp and still no hot start without some pedal. Where to I go from here. Thank you by the way! Also I am running about 56-57 psi fuel at idle.

    Jeep3-26.hplJeep #2 3-26.hplJeep #3 2-26.hpl

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0G3R View Post
    Jeep file idle updated.hpt

    try this file, i have updated the fuel tables at idle areas, timing areas at idle and adjusted startup airflow. get a log of how it idles at hot restart.
    Can you explain the differences of the previously posted tune and the one you have sent? I reviewed some of the changes in comparing files, but would like to understand the changes.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel196 View Post
    Can you explain the differences of the previously posted tune and the one you have sent? I reviewed some of the changes in comparing files, but would like to understand the changes.
    sent you a pm

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel196 View Post
    Ok, I used this file and still needed throttle to get it started, but besides that it seemed to run fairly well. Slight stutter when revving up and it would die if I let the RPM's drop without feathering the throttle back down. Got up to temp and still no hot start without some pedal. Where to I go from here. Thank you by the way! Also I am running about 56-57 psi fuel at idle.

    Jeep3-26.hplJeep #2 3-26.hplJeep #3 2-26.hpl


    use this file to adjust your ve table fueling, i have disabled closed loop and i have failed your maf so it goes strictly into SD

    .Jeep file idle updated (2).hpt

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0G3R View Post
    use this file to adjust your ve table fueling, i have disabled closed loop and i have failed your maf so it goes strictly into SD

    .Jeep file idle updated (2).hpt
    Can you explain to me which way I would adjust them based on what the wideband is doing?
    Last edited by Daniel196; 03-27-2020 at 10:38 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0G3R View Post
    use this file to adjust your ve table fueling, i have disabled closed loop and i have failed your maf so it goes strictly into SD

    .Jeep file idle updated (2).hpt

    I ran the motor up to temperature at idle and then revved up a few times. Seems to fall on its face after giving throttle and a little more laggy revving up until the motor was fully warm. Also seemed a little lean until warmer... which way do I adjust VE values to remedy this? also which VE table? Thanks again I feel like it is getting better. Still doesnt really want to start without throttle.

    Jeep 3-27 #1.hpl

  15. #15
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    More fuel means to add and less fuel means to subtract.

    You add to the VE to add more fuel and remove from the VE to subtract fuel. Same goes from the MAF table.

    This computer is an early calibration with 2 VE tables. The secondary VE table is the only one used in speed density tuning like the person above set up the tune to be. So you'd make your changes to the secondary VE, then you'd have to copy the rows over into the primary VE table and interpolate the rest to complete the table, then smooth it from there. The primary VE is used along with the MAF curve when not in speed density.

    Pro-tip, the secondary VE can be removed if the computers operating system is changed over the speed density enhanced OS under the OS tab. It makes VE tuning less of a hassle and way faster.


    Ideally what you need to do is setup the scanner to log the AFR error against the commanded AFR. That error graph will tell you exactly how far off the fueling is and will show you exactly where you need to add or remove fuel from the MAF or VE. (whichever one you are tuning at the moment). There are write ups in the VCM scanner sections sticky pages for doing this.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  16. #16
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    Hey guys, so I had to move the jeep today and let it warm up and it idled fine and did not die at all when I shifted. Now it would idle and roll the jeep just fine and be ok with a tiny bit of throttle, but would not rev up at all when trying to drive it. It is a th400 trans with no electronics or speedometer hookup. I am not sure if this had effect but motor revs up just fine without a load. Where do I go from here?

  17. #17
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    The non elec auto isn't an option on a stock truck, what happens if you put that back to the stock 4L60e setting?
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  18. #18
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    I will check tomorrow. I don't think the motor would have really known that I was in 1st, but under the load it would not rev really at all and would just move at the idle speed.

  19. #19
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    Put the abuse mode speed to 0mph as well, see if that does anything too.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  20. #20
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    Thank you very much. It was quite odd considering I put it back into park and it revved up right away and was very responsive. I know Dakota Digital makes a sensor of sorts for my th400 to hook up to the ls wiring, but for this motors purpose, I found more electronics to be silly.