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Thread: Turbo LQ4 a turd out of boost and logging troubles?

  1. #1
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    Turbo LQ4 a turd out of boost and logging troubles?

    Hola HP tuner magicians, any input on the following issues?

    1. Inaccurate data logs? Having some trouble with VCM scanner version 4.4.2 recording data correctly. For example, when I go WOT with key on, engine off, tps registers 100%. Not the case when doing a pull. Another issue is map reading different from my boost gauge. It shows 100 kpa KOEO and I am 99% sure it?s scaled correctly.

    2. Truck is a total dog off the line and out of boost. It revs kind of sluggish too for what it is, shows hints of snappiness when cold. I have been daily driving it for a while with no issues, just feel like there is a bit more performance out there.

    3. Rear gearing for stick rigs? Currently running a TR6060 manual with the .50 OD 6th gear. With 3.50 rear gears, can?t use 6th gear under 90 mph. If I step up to a 4.56, 6th gear will be totally usable, but with 1-3 be stupid? Also, could this be contributing to my dog like take off?

    Truck set up is as follows:

    1970 Ford f100 swb 3700lbs
    P59 OL speed density 3 bar map
    LQ4, stage 2 BTR turbo cam
    LS6 intake with 92mm China tb (new tps and iac)
    Sep 1500 injectors
    1.32 Borg S475
    Tr6060 6 speed - 3.50 rear gear and 27.3 tall tire
    Pump gas

    f100 9.0 ve.hptf100pull2.hplpull1.hpl

    Any input, opinions or good jabs at my sucky tune welcome!

  2. #2
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    Do you have a wideband?
    We really can't help with the fueling side of things without one.

    As far as the MAP sensor reading, it appears to be reading correctly. It goes up to 123 kPa at one point, so it's definitely building some boost. As the throttle closes, the boost goes away and the MAP sensor drops as you would expect.

    Did you perform a segment swap from a 2003 manual transmission application? If not, you might just click back to the regular automatic mode and disable the associated codes.
    Sometimes, just switching it to a manual transmission mode will do some strange stuff.

  3. #3
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    I do have a wideband, logging it through the AC psi sensor. AF seems to be pretty solid. Maybe needs a little minor tweaking but safe.

    For the map, my autometer boost gauge reads considerably higher values, closer to 8-10 psi (tough to get a good look at while WOT). So not sure which is correct.

    And will give Look into the trans segment, I don?t think I did a whole lot besides change it to manual, might have copied a few other values from a stock m6 tune in the repository but will double check. Thanks for the insight.

  4. #4
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    You can't log more than 1 map channel at a time. You are logging the 1 bar and the 3 bar, that can skew your data in the logs. Remove the 1 bar channel. The corvette, CTSV map sensor is 312.50 and -11.25 for the values, so that would right if that is your sensor.

    Changing the transmission type does nothing. It either has to be a segment swap or flashed with a stock file of the transmission you want. Typically segment swap are for auto to auto, not sure how much luck you'd have with a auto to manual segment swap. Half the time I leave it as it was stock, disabled all torque mgnt, abuse modes and trans related DTC's.


    I personally wouldn't have the idle timing as high, would prefer 18-22 degrees. Then make the timing curve off idle match that and slowly increase. Because right now if your cylinder airmass gets high enough it could drop down to single digit values.

    Still not entirely sure why bank 2 is using way more injector than bank 1. Possible that P0200 code you are tossing is a reason.

    The VE seems extremely inflated for how large your fuel injectors are.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

  5. #5
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    Wow, that is a lot of great feed back, thanks! I will remove the 1 bar channel asap and make another log. I am running the corvette/ctsv sensor, so that's good it's scaled correctly.

    For the trans stuff, should I just return it to auto and set all transmission codes to no error reported? the segment swap stuff is a little intimidating.

    As for the idle timing, if I drop it, I need to crank the idle RPM up considerably to keep it running, is that normal for an LJMS/BTR stage 2 turbo cam? Most idle clips I have seen of it are pretty mellow.

    I haven't noticed the P0200 before, I will check the harness and connectors prior to the next run and see if it goes/stays away. Injectors and fuel system are new and have less than 5k miles.

    Just really feels lazy, revs lazy, takes off lazy and is pretty boring when not spooling. Feels like a stock, m6 NA 6.0 would be more spunky at this point (it is exciting in boost though).

    thanks again for the input.

  6. #6
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    If you get the right combination of idle fueling and base running airflow down, it shouldn't take 25-30 degrees of timing to keep it happy at an 800rpm idle speed.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

  7. #7
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    The message that pops up, that every one says yes too, is a message that picks a different PID for you, a generic one. When you have a situation like two MAP channels, say no and it will display the actual PID you choose not a generic cover all one that may be confused by the wrong channel.

    Can you get the AC PSI channel to poll a little faster? Less than once a second updates for a WB is not very useful.
    "We can never be right, we can only be sure that we are wrong"- feynman

  8. #8
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    I will try and iron these discreps out today and report back. Sounds like the tune needs a pretty serious overhaul unfortunately. And here I thought it was close!!

  9. #9
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    Quick update, revamped my scanner, sped up the AC sensor polling, and deleted the extra map sensor. Seems to be capturing much better data now, shows accurate kpa. Still revs pretty lazily. After scouring the google machine, looks like a few others have had the same problem but never found or never posted the fix. Considering starting fresh with a 2003 manual calibration and starting over.

  10. #10
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    Quick update #2: Was just checking my injector data, and realized I have the SEP 1000s, not the 1500s I could have sworn I ordered. Anyway, updated the injector data with high hopes for a snappy throttle but minimal improvement. Is there anything else I need to change after updating inj data? AFR didn't change much, maybe a hair leaner which I will tune up on my way home today.

  11. #11
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    Just watch things over on the wideband/fuel trims to see what need addressing with the new injector data.

    Also make sure you run the same fuel pressure that the inputted data is at, as to not throw anything off.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

  12. #12
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    Advance:

    Base correction:
    Fuel (base button) This needs to be fixed, you dont want added timing in PE

    IAT (base) take advantage of this map, use it to pull and add timing with iat (add a tiny bit of timing for cold air. remove a bit extra for hot air. We are talking 1 or 2 degrees at first keep it simple)

    Timing map:
    needs smoothing, need to make transition into boost better
    pull timing gradually not suddenly
    use advance tab: Base correction: fuel: base (button) to remove the rest of the timing with enrichment
    Always pull some timing (a degreeish for < 15psi of boost at low compression) around peak torque (4400-5500rpm)


    Over speed and UnderSpeed tables: Take more advantage of these. Smooth them and use smaller numbers.
    Try not to use so much timing compensation to steady the idle.

    Instead Log the idle control position (or throttle control DBW) and turn down the sensitivity of the computer to fluctuating idle speeds so the throttle/iacv doesn't need to move around during an idle.

    Idle timing: get idle timing down to 15-18*
    Never use more than 20* of idle timing if you can help it.
    22* max IMO



    Examples:
    Idle tab -> Proportional
    Notice it says 25rpm there, so anytime the idle goes 25rpm away from ideal it starts trying gto correct.

    Same thing with integral: 10rpm

    And so forth.

    Look inside those tabs (airflow low/ingear/acoff) and see how much air is being added or subtracted based on those minute rpm differences

    Then look inside your engine log and see how far the idle actually moves around.

    In your second log there is a space of many seconds where the engine idles
    It shows as low as 744rpm and high as 813
    So lets say it runs from 750 to 800 most of the time

    that is a difference of 50rpm for idle, so we should cut that in half and use it in our idle tab,

    So I would go back into idle tab -> and adjust those setting to make the computer react less with the idle bouncing like that.
    For example change proportional to say 25 or 30rpm (it is already)
    Integral to 20~ also
    Then Remove or reduce the lower end of compensation from airflowhigh (so it doesn't try to pull idle air when the idle goes 20rpm over the set point)
    might also help with airflow low
    -----



    The log file "pull 2" Is showing some weird shit. When you lift its showing cyl airmass going crazy high.
    I dont know if its a polling issue or if there is some other reason for that (no bypass valve?)
    Also the response of the pedal seems very slow. It must be drive by wire?

    If it's a polling issue it means you are logging too many things too fast.
    Try going through each item and turning down the logging rate (to like 1/second) unless its absolutely necessary.
    Like keep the wideband fast, the rpm and map fast, the tps fast, but slow everything non-essential down.
    This will free up system processor to keep the log aligned properly.
    If that is the issue.

    Also the torque numbers seem insane high, I think your airflow model is way out of wack. Probably the injector size.
    if you are using pump 93 and 1000cc injectors I would set fuel pressure around 50psi or 48psi base. Then use reference vacuum to pull that down at idle to say 42psi~
    Less fuel pressure and the fuel system parts will last longer. You won't need 60psi with huge injectors and gasoline.


    First thing is get that log to line up properly. I Hope its wrong anyways

  13. #13
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    Thanks!!!

    Thanks a ton for taking the time to write all that out! Great feedback.

    I have fixed a bunch of the scanner issues by removing the unnecessary MAP channel. Paints a much more accurate picture now.

    Also, I triple checked the info for my injectors and had missed a table to correct with the new data. After updating it, it is pig rich everywhere. Started the process of using the WB error copy paste over and making improvements but it still needs a lot of work. I will try dropping fuel pressure before I make any more changes. Currently running 59 psi.

    Will make all the suggested changes, make a few updated logs and report back. Again, much obliged for the very detailed response.