Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30

Thread: *New* Line Pressure During Shift (Based on turbine speed) and adaptive CLADP disable

  1. #1

    *New* Line Pressure During Shift (Based on turbine speed) and adaptive CLADP disable

    Had eric add this in, awhile back for all 03-16 trucks.

    That are available in ford TCM A2Ls with OLS and arent available on previous mainstream available softwares.

    This will solve most soft mushy shifts and will firm up shifts abit so be easy on this.

    In stock form ford has it set to 150 psi on the top end on oem calibrations for 03-10 5Rs 11-16 are set to 140 PSI.

    This is based on turbine speed.

    Labeled under "Shifting TV Pressure" *Shifting* 5x1 table

    Adaptive disable, basically does what it says. It will disable the TCM based adaptive CLADP logic..

    So with it off, it will not pull pressure and "learn".. This is helpful under high HP situations where transmissions constantly "flare" and "revslam" (Targeted torward 03-10) but is helpful on 11-19 6R aswell.

    To disable lower RPM to a very low value, also lower temp to a very low value.

    This will block CLADP from enabling.

    Under Trans > Shift Properties > Adaptive > General
    Last edited by PSM 6.4; 04-02-2020 at 05:52 AM.
    2008 J2 F-350 CCSB

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by PSM 6.4 View Post
    Had eric add this in, awhile back for all 03-16 trucks.

    That are available in ford TCM A2Ls with OLS and arent available on previous mainstream available softwares.

    This will solve most soft mushy shifts and will firm up shifts abit so be easy on this.

    In stock form ford has it set to 150 psi on the top end on oem calibrations for 03-10 5Rs 11-16 are set to 140 PSI.

    This is based on turbine speed.

    Labeled under "Shifting TV Pressure" *Shifting* 5x1 table

    Adaptive disable, basically does what it says. It will disable the TCM based adaptive CLADP logic..

    So with it off, it will not pull pressure and "learn".. This is helpful under high HP situations where transmissions constantly "flare" and "revslam" (Targeted torward 03-10) but is helpful on 11-19 6R aswell.

    To disable lower RPM to a very low value, also lower temp to a very low value.

    This will block CLADP from enabling.

    Under Trans > Shift Properties > Adaptive > General
    Thanks for this. I've been having a lot of success with disabled CLAP on my 16. The shifts are quick and firm and don't soften over time or develop random flares and other issues due to adapting. What is the difference between the shifting TV pressure and the intercept and base values? Also is there modified torque tables used in the TCM calculations? Many of the shift pressure tables go negative however the torque PID on my ndash doesn't go negative.

  3. #3
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    33
    I'm having issues tuning a 5r110 could you explain a little more on what and how this works? Very little info on tuning these transmissions any help would be greatly appreciated.

  4. #4
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    33
    I'm having issues tuning a 5r110 could you explain a little more on what and how this works? Very little info on tuning these transmissions any help would be greatly appreciated.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver64 View Post
    I'm having issues tuning a 5r110 could you explain a little more on what and how this works? Very little info on tuning these transmissions any help would be greatly appreciated.
    CLADP is TCM based, adaptive learning function.. In basic terms it will pull and or add pressure onto what is set on your oncoming and offgoing line pressure tables depending on a few factors that are ever changing. (IIRC is abillity its +/- 30 PSI) This is usually the root cause for "revslams" and shift flares especially the 08-10 5R behind 6.4s.

    It also shows up in 17-19 6R aswell and is a bugger to work with.

    IMO it wasn't designed for higher HP applications, and sometimes in stock form (stock HP) it doesn't do to well either.

    Disable it and watch most of your issues go away.

    On higher mileage transmissions its even worst and makes you pull your hair out on why the transmission shifts so inconsistently no matter what you do.

    Line pressure during shift table does what it says.

    The TCM will drop line pressure while executing a shift to what ever the stock oem values dictate in that table.

    Stock untouched values are 150 psi (for 08-10) and 140 psi (for 11-16)

    Raising it will solve most "mushy" in-between shifts.

    Post up your TCM file
    Last edited by PSM 6.4; 04-04-2020 at 12:45 AM.
    2008 J2 F-350 CCSB

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by PSM 6.4 View Post
    CLADP is TCM based, adaptive learning function.. In basic terms it will pull and or add pressure onto what is set on your oncoming and offgoing line pressure tables depending on a few factors that are ever changing. (IIRC is abillity its +/- 30 PSI) This is usually the root cause for "revslams" and shift flares especially the 08-10 5R behind 6.4s.

    It also shows up in 17-19 6R aswell and is a bugger to work with.

    IMO it wasn't designed for higher HP applications, and sometimes in stock form (stock HP) it doesn't do to well either.

    Disable it and watch most of your issues go away.

    On higher mileage transmissions its even worst and makes you pull your hair out on why the transmission shifts so inconsistently no matter what you do.

    Line pressure during shift table does what it says.

    The TCM will drop line pressure while executing a shift to what ever the stock oem values dictate in that table.

    Stock untouched values are 150 psi (for 08-10) and 140 psi (for 11-16)

    Raising it will solve most "mushy" in-between shifts.

    Post up your TCM file
    Is there a reason there is no offgoing pressure table for the 6-5 downshift? Also I have had great luck eliminating flare by raising offgoing pressure and /or boost time.

  7. #7
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    33
    I cant seem to find some of these things. I dont have a general tab Under Trans > Shift Properties > Adaptive > General
    It seems im missing tables or something. Also are you saying to raise shifting tv pressure? *Shifting* 5x1 table
    Also where exactly is the temp and rpm that has to be lowered to disable adaptive learning? Which of the oncoming / off going clutch are for what gear?Sorry for all the question Ive been searching for info on tuning this transmission for almost a year now and have found very little info.
    oncomming .png
    oncomming .pngcurrent file.hpt

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CKrueg View Post
    Is there a reason there is no offgoing pressure table for the 6-5 downshift? Also I have had great luck eliminating flare by raising offgoing pressure and /or boost time.
    Capture.PNG

    This is what your looking for, 6-5 offgoing table?
    2008 J2 F-350 CCSB

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by PSM 6.4 View Post
    Capture.PNG

    This is what your looking for, 6-5 offgoing table?
    That appears to be it

  10. #10
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    1
    I cant seem to find the parameters mentioned, just tables for slip time and torque transfer time do i just 0 them out?

  11. #11
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    33
    I had the same problem, download the newest beta version of hp tuners. Install then reboot.

  12. #12
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    35
    So if CLADP is disabled, is the adaptive tab totally obsolete? And how much line psi during shift are you all adding? 10,20,50 psi?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bstroked View Post
    So if CLADP is disabled, is the adaptive tab totally obsolete? And how much line psi during shift are you all adding? 10,20,50 psi?
    I turned off adaptive and added varying amounts of pressure to oncoming elements to get the shift feel and speed I wanted. Some places this was 2 or 3 psi, and others it was 70. I did a lot of logging as well to see what the element pressure lines did and make sure the offgoing was letting go fast but not flaring.

  14. #14
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by CKrueg View Post
    I turned off adaptive and added varying amounts of pressure to oncoming elements to get the shift feel and speed I wanted. Some places this was 2 or 3 psi, and others it was 70. I did a lot of logging as well to see what the element pressure lines did and make sure the offgoing was letting go fast but not flaring.
    Are these the right PIDs to monitor? And what is it doing when one is coming on while the other is still going off? If you can look at my log file, does it look normal?
    custom trans 6 1.hpl
    1999 7.3L Powerstroke Garret 38R, 238/200 Shop built injectors, Minotaur tuning
    2015 6.7L Powerstroke

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by bstroked View Post
    Are these the right PIDs to monitor? And what is it doing when one is coming on while the other is still going off? If you can look at my log file, does it look normal?
    custom trans 6 1.hpl
    That looks like what you need to monitor for the most part. I like to have Input and output shaft speed as well as gear ratio. I don't see E clutch pressure and I'm not sure its available yet. If offgoing pressure drops too fast you will get a shift flare, and if it doesnt drop fast enough you get an excessive "torque hole" feel. I would describe that as applying the brakes momentarily before the rpm drops to the new gear. If oncoming pressure is too low, the rpm drops too slow, similar to letting the clutch out to slow in a manual, and if its too high, you get harsh shifts, similar to popping the clutch in a manual. i hope that helps

  16. #16
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    35
    Thanks. I think that helps. I'll keep working on it. I think might finally be wrapping my mind around this thing. I haven't found E clutch psi or gear ratio for my 15 yet... I have it doing not to bad at 30% throttle, but when I've tried 75% there it's been really wierd, like it's slipping or something, which is scaring me....

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PSM 6.4 View Post
    Had eric add this in, awhile back for all 03-16 trucks.

    That are available in ford TCM A2Ls with OLS and arent available on previous mainstream available softwares.

    This will solve most soft mushy shifts and will firm up shifts abit so be easy on this.

    In stock form ford has it set to 150 psi on the top end on oem calibrations for 03-10 5Rs 11-16 are set to 140 PSI.

    This is based on turbine speed.

    Labeled under "Shifting TV Pressure" *Shifting* 5x1 table

    Adaptive disable, basically does what it says. It will disable the TCM based adaptive CLADP logic..

    So with it off, it will not pull pressure and "learn".. This is helpful under high HP situations where transmissions constantly "flare" and "revslam" (Targeted torward 03-10) but is helpful on 11-19 6R aswell.

    To disable lower RPM to a very low value, also lower temp to a very low value.

    This will block CLADP from enabling.

    Under Trans > Shift Properties > Adaptive > General
    My beta version does not have any adaptive or general under shift properties, Am I missing something. loaded different tunes from 03 to 08
    Thanks, Jeff

  18. #18
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by CKrueg View Post
    That looks like what you need to monitor for the most part. I like to have Input and output shaft speed as well as gear ratio. I don't see E clutch pressure and I'm not sure its available yet. If offgoing pressure drops too fast you will get a shift flare, and if it doesnt drop fast enough you get an excessive "torque hole" feel. I would describe that as applying the brakes momentarily before the rpm drops to the new gear. If oncoming pressure is too low, the rpm drops too slow, similar to letting the clutch out to slow in a manual, and if its too high, you get harsh shifts, similar to popping the clutch in a manual. i hope that helps
    How do I shorten the offgoing clutch? I've read and read and tried many different things and combinations, adaptive on and off, and can't seem to get very noticeable results. I'm pretty sure my offgoing clutch is holding on to long, along with my commanded gear change not matching my actual gear change. I finally started going more by feel than by the looks of my chart and have gotten it to feel better but it's still not right. I've about pulled my hair out already trying to figure this thing out, so any advice or pointers on what direction to go, or where to head in, would be much appreciated. TIA
    Attached Files Attached Files
    1999 7.3L Powerstroke Garret 38R, 238/200 Shop built injectors, Minotaur tuning
    2015 6.7L Powerstroke

  19. #19
    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Albuquerque New Mexico
    Posts
    313
    Quote Originally Posted by bstroked View Post
    How do I shorten the offgoing clutch? I've read and read and tried many different things and combinations, adaptive on and off, and can't seem to get very noticeable results. I'm pretty sure my offgoing clutch is holding on to long, along with my commanded gear change not matching my actual gear change. I finally started going more by feel than by the looks of my chart and have gotten it to feel better but it's still not right. I've about pulled my hair out already trying to figure this thing out, so any advice or pointers on what direction to go, or where to head in, would be much appreciated. TIA
    Turn off anticipated shifting and torque based if you want to use your oss map only, also clear you adaptives and KAM, i asked for adaptive and KAM resets to be added to the scanner recently and they were for the 17-19 trucks but i haven't looked at a 15-16 as of yet to know if they were. If your offgoing is releasing too soon try increasing your clutch fill time for that shift and see how that does. One look at your timing map leaves a lot to be desired IMO. 5* for most of it and then going higher only in the bottom right corner will leave some response and tip in on the table.

  20. #20
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    35
    Thanks. I'll see what i can figure out with the anticipated and torque based stuff... I've disabled the torque reduction and some of that stuff but haven't done anything with anticipated. I've finally gotten my offgoing to be shorter than the oncoming by having the offgoing tables about 20psi higher than the oncoming PSI's... The shifts feel alright except for a little pause during the shift, which gets worse the more torque there is, but they sure don't always look very good on the graph.. Sometimes the rpm drops really good and then sometimes it drags a bit before dropping... I've tried messing with boost psi and times, but never seem to be able to get it. 3-4 is where I really have problems. The scanner doesn't read the E clutch, so I'm kinda just blindly trying to figure it out... It seems to shift better with a little higher boost and psi on the E element but the commanded shift happens way to soon.... As far as the KAM reset, it's in the adaptive tab in the editor, but I haven't seen anything about adaptive reset.... As for the timing, I'm been trying to duplicate a tune that I have from a tuner(whose no longer to be found) that did really good on fuel mileage... As best I can tell they were using the boost control maps to get the response back up...