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Thread: P0507

  1. #1
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    P0507

    So i've been fighting this P0507 code. Its basically saying my idle is out of above the set point. This all began after i installed a hellcat TB 92mm.
    When i first install the TB the car never threw this code but had the cruise control effect and surging at idle. I played with the airflow table, and also the small range table to get it idling fine and driving good. I still have a small amount of this cruise control/ throttle hang effect but its really not that bad. But now i keep getting this P0507 code, i changed some idle parameters to see if that help and also went back threw my airflow tables with no help and some start up/ cranking areas. only other thing i noticed is that the code only comes on when idling and never while driving, when the car is warm it idles in the area and rpm which it always has but.... when cold starting it does idle high for a few seconds and takes a while for it to come completely down to set point at 800 rpm. TIA
    6.4 Whipple Diamond pistons Manley rods, Demon Plus Cam

  2. #2
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FstdodgeKY View Post
    So i've been fighting this P0507 code. Its basically saying my idle is out of above the set point. This all began after i installed a hellcat TB 92mm.
    When i first install the TB the car never threw this code but had the cruise control effect and surging at idle. I played with the airflow table, and also the small range table to get it idling fine and driving good. I still have a small amount of this cruise control/ throttle hang effect but its really not that bad. But now i keep getting this P0507 code, i changed some idle parameters to see if that help and also went back threw my airflow tables with no help and some start up/ cranking areas. only other thing i noticed is that the code only comes on when idling and never while driving, when the car is warm it idles in the area and rpm which it always has but.... when cold starting it does idle high for a few seconds and takes a while for it to come completely down to set point at 800 rpm. TIA
    Have you check for a vacuum leak around TB with break clean? High idle when cold is in the tune, unless you have all the numbers the same.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  3. #3
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    Yes it only when cold that i get the high idle and doesn't last for more than a few seconds, id say after about 30 seconds its idled down to normal. I've chased all over the tune a cant see anything that would cause this and like before it only stared after the TB install. I believe its in the airflow tables and may just need be adjusted more to work it out but wanted to ask before i just start chasing my tail around in circles. I've heard some talk about the expected pedal tables needing adjusted as well but haven't gone their yet. And yes i've checked for vacuum leaks as well and all doubled checked all the multipliers and idle settings. Car revs to about 1500 on cold start and comes down to 1000 for a few seconds and then down to 800 where i've set my idle at.
    Last edited by FstdodgeKY; 04-02-2020 at 08:48 PM.
    6.4 Whipple Diamond pistons Manley rods, Demon Plus Cam

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    Quote Originally Posted by FstdodgeKY View Post
    Yes it only when cold that i get the high idle and doesn't last for more than a few seconds, id say after about 30 seconds its idled down to normal. I've chased all over the tune a cant see anything that would cause this and like before it only stared after the TB install. I believe its in the airflow tables and may just need be adjusted more to work it out but wanted to ask before i just start chasing my tail around in circles. I've heard some talk about the expected pedal tables needing adjusted as well but haven't gone their yet. And yes i've checked for vacuum leaks as well and all doubled checked all the multipliers and idle settings. Car revs to about 1500 on cold start and comes down to 1000 for a few seconds and then down to 800 where i've set my idle at.
    Have you tried logging desired idle on start-up to see if the elevated idle is being commanded, rather than just being an airflow calibration offset?

  5. #5
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FstdodgeKY View Post
    Yes it only when cold that i get the high idle and doesn't last for more than a few seconds, id say after about 30 seconds its idled down to normal. I've chased all over the tune a cant see anything that would cause this and like before it only stared after the TB install. I believe its in the airflow tables and may just need be adjusted more to work it out but wanted to ask before i just start chasing my tail around in circles. I've heard some talk about the expected pedal tables needing adjusted as well but haven't gone their yet. And yes i've checked for vacuum leaks as well and all doubled checked all the multipliers and idle settings. Car revs to about 1500 on cold start and comes down to 1000 for a few seconds and then down to 800 where i've set my idle at.
    If you don't like the real high idle when cold you can tune that out, mine is max 1100. You did the throttle relearn using HPT?
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

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    I try logging the commanded idle speed but if its commanded then why the code?? I have changed all the start up idle settings to match to cancel out variables.

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    logged the idle commanded and it is exactly what the car is giving as far as rpm on cold start??? Humm still not sure, i did notice the car takes a while to throw the P0507 code, but never while driving and only at a stop will this happen
    6.4 Whipple Diamond pistons Manley rods, Demon Plus Cam

  8. #8
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FstdodgeKY View Post
    logged the idle commanded and it is exactly what the car is giving as far as rpm on cold start??? Humm still not sure, i did notice the car takes a while to throw the P0507 code, but never while driving and only at a stop will this happen
    where's the latest tune and a sound clip of the cam?
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  9. #9
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    You may need to make the airflow numbers around idle and off-idle bigger

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    Hemituna just spoke with travis over at tbrtuning and that's what he suggested as well, i changed them to lower numbers thinking the TB would close more due to having a lower aircharge reading but after speaking to him i understand that i was wrong in my thinking. Lower numbers in the tables move the TB more which gives better throttle response but for my exact issue making them larger would actually close the TB more and bring down my cold start idle. I believe i may need to make a few adjustment in other areas also as ive changed a few things in other places to try and help with this issue. Also travis talks very highly of you and i would like to thanks you as well for all the support you give on this forum .
    6.4 Whipple Diamond pistons Manley rods, Demon Plus Cam

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FstdodgeKY View Post
    Hemituna just spoke with travis over at tbrtuning and that's what he suggested as well, i changed them to lower numbers thinking the TB would close more due to having a lower aircharge reading but after speaking to him i understand that i was wrong in my thinking. Lower numbers in the tables move the TB more which gives better throttle response but for my exact issue making them larger would actually close the TB more and bring down my cold start idle. I believe i may need to make a few adjustment in other areas also as ive changed a few things in other places to try and help with this issue. Also travis talks very highly of you and i would like to thanks you as well for all the support you give on this forum .
    Just remember, regardless of where you set your airflow vs TPS correlation, the PID loop control is always going to try to pull your idle back up/down to whatever the desired/commanded idle is. But, the further away from base calibration you make things (ie. manipulating airflow vs TPS correlation tables to attempt to gain a lower idle at start-up), the more you're relying on adaptives (PID loop) to bring idle back to target. The more that adaptives are relied upon, the less stability you will experience in idle characteristics and throttle linearity.

  12. #12
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    I have noticed this with what I have already done. Hoping that going the other way will help in regards to having relying on adaptive to help control my issue. And speaking of my issue I'm really just trying to figure out what the cause is as it's not causing any issues as far as reliability or driving.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FstdodgeKY View Post
    I have noticed this with what I have already done. Hoping that going the other way will help in regards to having relying on adaptive to help control my issue. And speaking of my issue I'm really just trying to figure out what the cause is as it's not causing any issues as far as reliability or driving.
    Isn't the cold start idle set in Base Set Point-elevated- target idle speed elevated? That's what I changed to lower cold start idle RPM and Time it spent there.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  14. #14
    Senior Tuner Mep_q8's Avatar
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    what do your fuel trims look like when it happens?

    I'm guessing some +25 LTFTs?

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  15. #15
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    The car is tuned only on the VE table and o2 are off so i'm not getting any data from them. I do have a WB but sadly when ever the car starts the WB is warming up and not giving any data. All fueling is spot on for what i'm commanding, after a few revisions i believe to have this worked out and haven't had my check engine light come back on for now so well see. As for having the o2 off, i was having excessively lean spike going into WOT which could not be remedy, so they were turned off and just added fuel to VE table to take care of the transition into WOT.

    and yes coanan your correct on the idle table set point but for some reason it still shoots up to 1500 on a cold start when im commanding 800 everywhere??? Like i said tho its doesnt seem to hurt anything other than my OCD when the light comes on. Also im particular on why things do what they do and would rather understand why they do rather than just turning the light out..
    6.4 Whipple Diamond pistons Manley rods, Demon Plus Cam

  16. #16
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    Finished my cam and have some of the cold high idles issues, going above commanded, never had the issue before cam. Toughest part of this is the damn idle stuff. A/C on is the biggest issue with idle dropping, only from R to N or D to N. Going from N to D or N to R it'll increase by 100. Have it pretty close now, but I raised idle to 900, drop it to 750 - 800 and it dips too low. Trying to figure out how the Idle torque spark and throttle affects this and make the right adj.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  17. #17
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    I believe i have fixed the check engine light issue been a couple days now and hasn't returned

    Conan from what i've learned big cams need lots of airflow at low idle, You might try lowering airflow table in idle areas to help, this will cause the TB to open more to allow more airflow, also timing can cause this as well but not as much. How much have you changed your idle spark error? This error controls the amount of spark adjustment vs rpm error at idle in P/N. Adjustments here will have more effect on idle sound as it will let the spark swing more or less vs rpm error. Talk to tbrtuning he has spent many hours on these cars and really knows his stuff, he even has a killer tune for the hp70 trans that helps it last under big power and his prices are good not to mention his killer customer service. That's who did most all my tune, He helped my understand how and what works rather than just writing a tune. To me that's worth more..
    6.4 Whipple Diamond pistons Manley rods, Demon Plus Cam

  18. #18
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FstdodgeKY View Post
    I believe i have fixed the check engine light issue been a couple days now and hasn't returned

    Conan from what i've learned big cams need lots of airflow at low idle, You might try lowering airflow table in idle areas to help, this will cause the TB to open more to allow more airflow, also timing can cause this as well but not as much. How much have you changed your idle spark error? This error controls the amount of spark adjustment vs rpm error at idle in P/N. Adjustments here will have more effect on idle sound as it will let the spark swing more or less vs rpm error. Talk to tbrtuning he has spent many hours on these cars and really knows his stuff, he even has a killer tune for the hp70 trans that helps it last under big power and his prices are good not to mention his killer customer service. That's who did most all my tune, He helped my understand how and what works rather than just writing a tune. To me that's worth more..

    It's good your moving forward with tune. TBRTuning has offered some help, my car seems to be an odd one, first email tuner couldn't figure out why the standard numbers he normally sees weren't working. Throttle body air flow always like big numbers to run, when going with the standard stuff you normally see it would hang, get the throttle body error. I tried going with the numbers from precam tune and it would hardly run.
    Trying to understand how the derivative, proportional, and, integral work in idle torque throttle/spark. Someone explained it on here before, but can't find it. Wouldn't mind getting more cam sound also. Leaving NN on for now and working on the fueling, have dual WB going in case I go SD route.

    Can't get the log to load.
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    Last edited by coanan; 04-08-2020 at 01:31 PM.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  19. #19
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    If in doubt, multiply everything by 1.1.

  20. #20
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Thank you very much. I'm fooling with lowering numbers and it doesn't like it. Best I got so far. Drives great, just a little up and down now when going D to N, R to N. Guess it's trial and error with numbers.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by coanan; 04-08-2020 at 03:10 PM.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp