Switched to e85 and lost power??

[doc350]

Ok, so I am working on a 2017 Challenger Scat Pack that I tuned about 6 months ago. The car has a Comp 270 cam, Edelbrock Victor intake manifold, long tubes and a Legmaker intake.

On 91oct, the car put down 503hp/513tq on my Dynojet.

Recently, the owner of the car wanted to run e85, so he installed Hellcat injectors and a Walbro 450 fuel pump.

I put the car back on the dyno, and I could only get it to 502hp/487tq.

This is the first N/A hemi that I have run on ethanol, but I have a hard time believing that it would lose so much torque down low, and not pick up any power up top.

Has anyone else run into something like this? Is it typical of these late model hemis?

[luciddeath]

Well would need to see the file but. What is stoich set at and what is eq commanded at wot

[Ben Charles]

I wonder if stoich differs from what the e85 actually is, also how much more tuning did you run and what was the base timing initially..
doubtful that throttle closed.. most likely in the spark/fuel

[Dave401Redeye]

I have to ask the big "WHY" i cant think of a reason to to convert a car to E85 if it does not have boost or a high compression engine the required race fuel. To put E85 on a engine that runs ok on 91 oct go against all rational thinking. I think it is supposed to make less power with E85 the same as it would be expected to make less power on 116 race fuel. I think the quicker you get it back on 91 that happier you will be.

[kenandjenn4551]

My HCI 392 runs really great on E85. My actual ethanol percentage hangs around 77% at my pump.

1. Set Stoich to the actual ethanol amount. I tune to 0.84 lambda on my car, but it makes the same power from 0.80 to 0.86 with Ethanol.

2. How much timing did you give it? I have forged 2618 Pistons and Rods in my car, so I really ramp up the timing early. If I remember correctly, I am at around 20* at 3,000 rpm and peak at 26* at 7,200 rpms. These values were confirmed on a Mustang dyno.

3. The Hellcat injector is a poor design for the 6.4L chamber. The owner should have went with a ID1050x or FIC650.


542/502 on my build and this was done on a Mustang Dyno. Car has ran 10.9 @ 127.5 and is capable of 10.7 as it sits.

[Alvin]

I've done some serous NA setups.. Some going after records like "stock bottom end" etc so we are really picking at fly shit to find more power. I've seen maybe 3-10 rwhp at best switching to E85 NA.

Supercharged or turbo stuff I've seen HUGE power.. had one pick up 110 rwhp.

[doc350]

Guys, sorry I didn't update this. It ended up that the ethanol content in the car was only at ~65%, so when it was tuned for ~85% like I was told was in the tank, the car was way rich. We ended up installing a ethanol content gauge in the car and ran a couple tanks of pump e85 through it. Ethanol content ended up around 82%, so I tuned it for that and the car picked up 20hp and 23ft lbs over the 91oct setup.

Thanks for all the input, it just ended up being something simple and dumb.

[Ben Charles]

Sounds about right

[5FDP]

I have to ask the big "WHY" i cant think of a reason to to convert a car to E85 if it does not have boost or a high compression engine the required race fuel. To put E85 on a engine that runs ok on 91 oct go against all rational thinking. I think it is supposed to make less power with E85 the same as it would be expected to make less power on 116 race fuel. I think the quicker you get it back on 91 that happier you will be.

I'm just browsing through the forum here but this is my thoughts. Running E85 in many applications doesn't make much sense but is some vehicles the factory even rates the engine at 20-25hp more on flex fuel. So running it there makes total sense. I know this is a dodge section but in many GM cars/trucks it is this way so why not run it if more power is what you are after.