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Thread: 2000 TA total mess.

  1. #1
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    2000 TA total mess.

    Good afternoon everyone. I recently purchased a TA that has a couple of goodies in it. The previous guy took it to get a street tune but the guys could never get it to run properly. Had issues with idle and rpms going up. long story short, the guys was trying to tune without a PCV system. reset tps sensor and idle relearn. Purchased HPtuners PRO with hopes to learn and get this thing running properly. I pick up on things really quick, just need some guidance. Here is the current file in the pcm, let me know how it looks. Still waiting on my wideband to come in, but I want to have this thing start and stay running. I currently have to hold the pedal till it evens out and stays running. Ive been reading and watching videos and this is where I am currently at, cant really do much without the wideband though. Let me know what you think. I am open to criticism and any suggestions. I mainly want to get this thing holding proper idle and starting without it trying to shut off or holding the throttle

    BTR stage 4
    Fast 92 intake
    nick williams 92mm TB
    243 heads
    LT Headers
    no cats
    Stock injectors

    Thank you all.
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    Last edited by Joepeinado; 05-17-2020 at 07:10 PM.

  2. #2
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    Alright, I started from scratch again. Went back to the sticky and started adjusting from there to get the car to idle. Here is the new tune I have uploaded and it idles very well now compared to how it was. The only hiccup that I have is that when I turn on the AC the idle drops to about 400 or so then comes back up. What should I adjust in this case to stop this from happening? I also attached a data log, idk if this is the correct format...?
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  3. #3
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    anyone?

  4. #4
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    You need to work on the fuel trims a bit more. It's pretty lean in some high load areas. If it were mine, I'd do a SD tune on that one. Make sure that your secondary VE table matches the primary table as well. Since it's a manual transmission car, I'd just max out the Burst knock table as well.
    You'll also want to drop the fan activation points by 12-15 degrees.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin87turbot View Post
    You need to work on the fuel trims a bit more. It's pretty lean in some high load areas. If it were mine, I'd do a SD tune on that one. Make sure that your secondary VE table matches the primary table as well. Since it's a manual transmission car, I'd just max out the Burst knock table as well.
    You'll also want to drop the fan activation points by 12-15 degrees.
    Thank you for taking a look! What do you mean Max out on the burst knock table? By what value and under "enable delta cyl air" or "vs rpm? Just modified the fans and matched my be tables. Still waiting on my wideband to come in to work on the fuel trims. I will look into SD vs MAF for sure. Once again, thanks for the input!

  6. #6
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    Ok I just zeroed the burst knock and rpm tables.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joepeinado View Post
    Alright, I started from scratch again. Went back to the sticky and started adjusting from there to get the car to idle. Here is the new tune I have uploaded and it idles very well now compared to how it was. The only hiccup that I have is that when I turn on the AC the idle drops to about 400 or so then comes back up. What should I adjust in this case to stop this from happening? I also attached a data log, idk if this is the correct format...?
    Idle>Airflow>Adaptive Idle Airflow> AC offset filt increase for the recovery rate when AC kicks in. Adjust and evaluate. Depending on the other airflow parameters this should keep it from dipping so low. If it flares/ oscillates as AC comes on you went too far, reduce the offset. Idle>>Underspeed make 2*

    If the Base running airflow is at least 15% higher you should be able to adjust the idle down some along with timing adjustment and still be stable.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hondaeater View Post
    Idle>Airflow>Adaptive Idle Airflow> AC offset filt increase for the recovery rate when AC kicks in. Adjust and evaluate. Depending on the other airflow parameters this should keep it from dipping so low. If it flares/ oscillates as AC comes on you went too far, reduce the offset. Idle>>Underspeed make 2*

    If the Base running airflow is at least 15% higher you should be able to adjust the idle down some along with timing adjustment and still be stable.
    Thanks for the pointers! Went in there and made some adjustments but I couldn't stop it form flaring even after only adding very little, so I returned it to the previous tune. I lowered my timing at idle and increased base running airflow not much difference other than it chops a little more but even then it doesnt sound good. Car is hunting for idle for the first couple of seconds and then eventually evens out. also, i couldn't find "underspeed" under idle, but I did find another tab in "Spark>advance>idle adaptive air speed" dont know if this is the same. I was looking at the injector duty cycle and its pretty low, unless I am looking at this wrong. I will attach a short datalog and look at the injector duty cycle and let me know. I am still on the stock injectors but idk if I can bump these up, I might just need more fuel at start up but idk. My wideband should be coming in this Thursday, so I should have a better idea of what it will be looking like then, Just want to get some of this taken care off. Once again, thanks for the help!

    attached is a new file i will be uploading to the car tomorrow morning
    attached is a datalog with injector duty cycle, or i might just be way off, im new...LOL
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  9. #9
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    Your Fan temps are really high. The fan temps should be set about 5-8* over thermostat (usually 180* thermostat) and to shut off 2* above the opening temp on stage1 fan and stage 2 ON about (195* or 15* higher than thermostat & off 10*lower than that. This needs adjustment.modified1st tune work off this one part2.hpt
    Last edited by Hondaeater; 05-26-2020 at 01:50 PM.

  10. #10
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    well i have changed my tune somewhat from last time i posted. Here is where i am at right now, I was able to get my maf dialed in a bit. I read somewhere that when dialing in the maf that it is better to be a bit on the rich side and then then my 02 will bring it in close to -1 to 1. Well everything looked great when tuning it, then as soon soon as i enable LTFT i went lean. IDK if my 02's arent working properly. I will attach a log from when i was tuning the maf and a log after i went back and turned on everything to work together. I also started stalling when coming to a stop, didn't have that problem for a while and then it started. my cold starts are also a bitch. I also noticed that my base running airflow doesn't match what my maf is showing in the PID when using the scanner. I also messed with the AC filt but it started oscillating even when only modifying it a bit so i went back and changed it to to where it was. Anyways, thanks for the pointers and for taking a look, keep coming back and giving me pointers. BTW, i have a wideband now so it should be easier to tune.
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    Last edited by Joepeinado; 05-28-2020 at 12:52 AM.

  11. #11
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    Did you load up a stock tune and went from there or just went off the previous tuners changes?
    Im trying to learn hpt, so Im wondering if its better to start with a fresh stock tune at times
    Last edited by BLACK DEATH; 05-28-2020 at 08:39 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLACK DEATH View Post
    Did you load up a stock tune and went from there or just went off the previous tuners changes?
    Im trying to learn hpt, so Im wondering if its better to start with a fresh stock tune at times
    I started all over again. I attached the correct file but uploaded the incorrect one yesterday. I actually uploaded the maf tune 2 and my readings seem better and car runs better. No more stalling. But I still think that my 02s are kinda screwy

  13. #13
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    But yes, it's better to start over. Well, at least if your car runs like ass like mine did then it's better to start over. The previous guy was tuning without a wideband and he was tuning with a massive vacuum leak since they did not run a pcv system. So everything was messed up. My car runs a whole lot better after I uploaded a stock tune and then started from scratch

  14. #14
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    Hondaeater, take a look at my current tune. I have not made the changes you posted since ive been tuning the VE table and idk if this will affect it in any way. question, is my ve table supposed to look like that? Also, that histogram is for a short drive, so I know its missing a lot of data in the cells
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    Last edited by Joepeinado; 05-31-2020 at 07:42 PM.

  15. #15
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    Good evening everyone, here is my latest tune. I was data-loging today for about 2 hrs. I think I'm getting closer to getting the VE table in line. I just cant wrap my head around the adjustments. If I go and paste by half %, it still ends up overshooting and I start running lean then I have to go back and richen up some tables and I end up overshooting again. Its like a never ending cycle lol. Would I be ok to leave 5-6% on the rich side and have the oxygen sensor bring it all in once they are active again or should I try and get it as close as possible to -2% to -3%? Also, if i manually adjust the VE table, if I increase the number does that mean it goes rich or lean? I was using the smoothing feature and it seems to throw it off even more so i only smooth out some tables when they look super spiky. I have attached the last datalog and the adjustments that I made to the VE tables that I will be running tomorrow when I head out to work. Any pointers, suggestions, criticism is welcomed. I'm here to learn from y'all and i hope to give back someday.

  16. #16
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    Looks like mostly good data. The AFR Err in OL is coming in nicely. After paste special Multi by % you say it either over or undershoots target, it looks like the TPS transitions. I know DBC TB are touchy but try to smooth it out and do not be so worried about hitting each cell. The histogram is nicely filled in but at the cost of TB inconsistency. Make those pulls again being more mindful of the TB smoothness and after A,B,C get that good data in there and lets look for jaggies to work out. Add the Cylinder airmass, vehicle speed, engine torque channels ok. You may need a higher gear to transition slower but then your doing like 100 lol. Just checking the AFR on WB and what is logging in Scanner is same right no offset issues?
    Last edited by Hondaeater; 06-02-2020 at 12:03 AM.

  17. #17
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    increasing the number adds fuel. In your power enrichment settings you only have it commanding stoich instead of richer than stoich. If you ran like a 1.18 in those instead of a 1 that would help. It would be good to zero out your ect correction table under spark advance so its not messing you up

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan_axberg View Post
    increasing the number adds fuel. In your power enrichment settings you only have it commanding stoich instead of richer than stoich. If you ran like a 1.18 in those instead of a 1 that would help. It would be good to zero out your ect correction table under spark advance so its not messing you up
    Ryan, If I move over to 1.18, will I have to re do the whole table again? Also, the ECT table you are talking about is the correction table under "Base Corrections"? I attached a screenshot
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    Last edited by Joepeinado; 06-02-2020 at 03:47 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hondaeater View Post
    Looks like mostly good data. The AFR Err in OL is coming in nicely. After paste special Multi by % you say it either over or undershoots target, it looks like the TPS transitions. I know DBC TB are touchy but try to smooth it out and do not be so worried about hitting each cell. The histogram is nicely filled in but at the cost of TB inconsistency. Make those pulls again being more mindful of the TB smoothness and after A,B,C get that good data in there and lets look for jaggies to work out. Add the Cylinder airmass, vehicle speed, engine torque channels ok. You may need a higher gear to transition slower but then your doing like 100 lol. Just checking the AFR on WB and what is logging in Scanner is same right no offset issues?
    Hondaeater, I have added the channels to the scanner and I logged another run when I was out to lunch. I will try an keep a steady foot when letting off or shiffting so that the TPS is reading properly. I am running on a back road, its uneven as hell, but I've hit 100+ a couple of times now, kinda scary when the road is uneven. Wideband is reading correct, but I am hoping that I am not pulling in air through one of the bands. Exhaust sounds good, no sounds of leaks but i know how these things pick up on issues real quick. I have attached the datalog from todays lunch break.
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  20. #20
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    alright,I went out and data-logged a couple of times. Here are the latest data logs. The one that has the histograms almost full was the 2nd to last log I did and then I made some adjustments and the last one isn't populated much because it was a short drive home. Should I revert to the 2nd to last histogram and call it a day or should I continue from the last histogram? I added decimals and started adjusting by adding or subtracting less than 1% (ex: .72 or -.72, etc) per cell. I also zeroed out the ECT table like Ryan suggested and it seemed to even out my results a bit better.
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