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Thread: octane mod

  1. #1
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    Cool octane mod

    hello everyone. has anyone got information on setting up the Octane Modifier clip. should be available on 18+ coyote. I have been messing with it and inferred octane pid showing 93 and that is what is in it. So my first test with octanium booster didn't change the 93 reading. my goal is to get the PID to read the octane so spark is manipulated. see pics this is what I am working with thanks.
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  2. #2
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    What was your mixing rate?

  3. #3
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    15 gallons of 93 and 1 quart of Octanium... not sure what is mix rate
    Last edited by 18f1505.0roush; 06-03-2020 at 12:36 PM.

  4. #4
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    That should have brought you to around 96. Its an MMT booster, I don't know how the sensor in the car is going to respond to it, the ECM wizardry and how it infers octane is beyond my comprehension.

  5. #5
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    Think of it like fuel trims, but with your knock sensor. Its goal for the borderline table modification is 0 knock, with not having to add or remove too much from that value. The multiplier to the octane adjustment value can go from -1 to 1. Then when its at 1 PID is 87 octane and -1 PID shows 93 octane.

    Octane adjustment ratio should be logged to know where the multiplier is. I dont think you can change the PID to read higher than 93. if it is reading 93 then you can add to the borderline table or you have reached the MBT spark value, goal achieved.
    Last edited by murfie; 06-05-2020 at 03:48 AM.

  6. #6
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    thank you murfie you simplified it well. i was thinking it was using knock to figure

  7. #7
    Murfie, does this act like an ethanol content learn? does it reset on a fill up? or does it just monitor continuously and dynamically adjust based on knock feedback? Do you know how much driving might be expected to trust the value?

  8. #8
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    Its constantly adjusting, because even with IAT changes or ECT changes knock could be introduced or moved out of the way and the "base borderline" value would need to be adjusted. you have multiplier tables to help keep the "base borderline" moving where it should go, so its assumed any more adjustment would be because of octane, but may not actually be. That's assuming your multiplier tables for IAT, ECT, ect. are moving it the appropriate amount for their defined parameters and not too much or too little. It should adjust fairly quickly based on the amount of knock seen or not seen to keep things at the true borderline. You might see knock in a spot, then see the OAR adjust and the knock goes away the next time you are in the same spot.


    Equating it to fuel trims is over simplifying a very dynamic phenomenon. But its the same basic principle. Knock sensor activity would be like STFT, OAR would be like learned knock activity or LTFT.
    Last edited by murfie; 06-06-2020 at 10:59 PM.

  9. #9
    what would a proper practical application of his look like in the tables, I want to be sure I understand it all.

    Min / Max modifier is 1 to -1 ok? does it give you more range or resolution? My cal hs .5 to -.5.

    clip is set to -1 but its all for 5000 rpm, there is no range in the table data. my learned knock table is zeroed out.

  10. #10
    I have a vid octane adjust table and a separate octane adjustment table under advanced.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by murfie View Post
    Think of it like fuel trims, but with your knock sensor.
    You mean like Long Term Fuel Trims right? So let's say someone gets to aggressive with their borderline timing adjustments at WOT. If this saw knock all the time the PID might adjust to say 1 because it thinks it's running low octane gas? I could see this table being useful if we could reset the PID to 0 which I'm assuming resets in the cal flash process?
    Knock Retard is the reduction or prevention of knock by lowering ignition timing:

    (+) Adding Knock Retard = Reducing Timing. PCM is seeing knock.
    (--) Lowering Knock Retard = Increasing Timing. PCM isn't seeing knock.
    __________________________________________________ ________

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

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  13. #13
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    trying to figure out this scale all 1's reading is 93 all 0's reads 95 octane
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  14. #14
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    Ok any one know what’s the values mean - octane modifier clip ranges from -2 to 2
    so if I make them all 2 what will that do ?
    or I make them all -2
    Last edited by paulsmithsr; 06-11-2020 at 12:52 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18f1505.0roush View Post
    trying to figure out this scale all 1's reading is 93 all 0's reads 95 octane
    Where do we adjust the tune so that 93 octane = 0 or say X octane = 0 ?
    Knock Retard is the reduction or prevention of knock by lowering ignition timing:

    (+) Adding Knock Retard = Reducing Timing. PCM is seeing knock.
    (--) Lowering Knock Retard = Increasing Timing. PCM isn't seeing knock.
    __________________________________________________ ________

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

  16. #16
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    ok tried -2 in octane modified clip and it cut base timing in half car was a turd
    then tried +2 and still ran weird so I don't know any help?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbolt22 View Post
    Where do we adjust the tune so that 93 octane = 0 or say X octane = 0 ?
    spark/retard octain mod clip

  18. #18
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    got it working had to set the knock adaptive learning and enable correctly thanks everyone

  19. #19
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    pids to monitor , knock octane modifier and knock correct learn

  20. #20
    So if I understand correctly, and maybe Murfie will jump back on.

    The success of using this feature to me relies on really good base calibration and table values with correct modifiers for fueling and temps. Otherwise learned knock may be useless to harmful. If you start with a poor calibration, this is just one more thing to confuse you or make he car drive worse. Setting it up wrong could add in place of removing timing, and get you a trophy (Greg Banish).

    Your base timing will adjust based on Borderline, Lambda, and torque requests. If within your driving patterns the ECU sees knock, or is adding timing due to no knock it uses the knock learned correction vs Octane table. This table should be setup to ensure that the range of timing advance or retard properly resolves to a correct Octane Modifier. For my test I am scaling from 1 to negative 1. Because this modifier works with a table with negative numbers for retard a positive value will resolve in less timing commanded, and I assume visa versa.

    I set my max and min modifier values to 1 and -1 respectfully - to match the above table.

    I have the clip set to -1 for all rpm ranges - this should afford the ECU the maximum ability to add spark.

    I set all enable flags to basically turn this on for all rpm / load ranges the car will see.

    Time, constant, and transient values left stock as I have zero clue how they work.

    because my original tables only allowed for .5 and -.5 respectfully I lowered by approx .5 the values in the octane adjust table under the advance tab. Again all values here are negative values. At maximum values for learned knock, or advance I am only giving the car the ability to add or remove 2 degrees in most areas and 3 in others.

    I believe my base tables are pretty good, and especially after dialing in SD to keep me in the correct cells I am going to try this. My hope is the learned modifier value is close to zero running 93 as that is my typical fuel, with bad gas the modifier should go positive, with additives like boostane it should go negative.

    The original calibration stayd locked at -.5 so I will probably need to add some spark slowly in some of the borderline tables to ensure clean 93 results in 0.

    After playing with it I might Increase the values in the Spark knock adjustment / load table.

    What I dont know is if or how any of this effects the maximum advance table.