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Thread: Botbashers 2011 B8 Audi A5 2.0TFSI (CAEB) Build Thread

  1. #1
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    Botbashers 2011 B8 Audi A5 2.0TFSI (CAEB) Build Thread

    Morning All!!!

    I figured that it was about time to start my own build/tuning thread and stop half posting questions and answers in everyone else's threads.

    So here goes! A little history first.

    I bought the car, over the web, from a dealer 400 miles away. It had a impeccable CarFax and was owned by 2 motorsport dealers. The reason that is important is that the 2009-11 2.0 TFSI had a built in hand grenade with bad rings and chain tensioners. Needless to say I found out the work had not been done on the way home when it sucked down 1L of oil. After 6mo it got to the point it was sucking down 1L every 200 miles. I had enough!

    I got all the bits together and while trying to buy a house, I managed to rebuild the motor. About 3 months after the rebuild and several thousand happy miles, I started getting the dreaded P0299 (underboost) code and knew the turbos days were numbered. I got the bits for a Frankenturbo F23L (K04) swap together and during my recent Pandemic Furlough 2020, I swapped it in.

    It's been good so far. Tyler has been the MAN! helping me get some base tunes into it while I learned how to navigate HP Tuner and VAG maps!

    While I was swapping in the K04, I upgraded all the intercooler and associated plumbing and plumbed in a Water/Meth Injection system that I will eventually add tuning for.

    So, I know everyone loves some good build porn, so I'll add a couple of pics with details about the rebuild, swap and upgrades following this....

    Cheers!

    KS

  2. #2
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    The build...

    92k miles and the cross hatch is still perfectly visible on the walls. I got a little happier when I found this. It had obviously had a steady diet of regularly changed synthetic over the miles!

    I Cerakoted the pistons and head for any future plans (No, I didn't upgrade the internals because at the tie I was buying a house and that won the $$ pot!).

    You can see the MASSIVE difference in the new and old rings. What happened is the the little holes eventually clogged and caused the oil to travel up into the cylinder. It didn't hurt the motor as long as you kept oil in it, but that was a chore when it would drink about 2L per fill-up!!! Many times the low oil warning went off and I would pull over, grab the liter in the back, fill her up and drive away!

    Put it all back together and 30k miles later she's still running like a top!

    The crud on the valve is the standard Direct Injection crud when a catch can isn't utilized. Yuck!!! You would normally need walnut blasting to correct this, but when you are rebuilding the head you just pull them out and go to town!!!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Botbasher; 06-09-2020 at 10:26 AM.

  3. #3
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    Logs and tune also help

  4. #4
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    Oh those valves brings back bad memories from my engine build

    I would love to look through whats changed in your tune when going to the K04, I'm considering going for a EFR-6758 instead of my K03 once I have ironed out all little bugs in my build.
    Did you upgrade the intercooler as well?

    Cheers,
    Alex

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    So when I got all the bits for the K04 swap together... and had a few weeks off (thank you COVID!)... I sat down and swapped in all the needed upgrade parts!

    Turbo, intercooler and associated plumbing and tuning to support it were all done. I also dropped in a Snow Performance Stage 3 Water/Meth injection kit for an eventual use! I opted for the totally stealth install for the Meth system. Luckily the Audi has options in the tanks for headlight washers (which I didn't have) so I stole the blocked off area to install a port and will use the in-dash low fluid warning for my check!

    Into every project a little strife must fall. When I started to pull the manifold nuts, I found the last stud (aka the hardest one to work on) broken off. It felt fine when I rebuilt the motor, but obviously broke between the work. So after 3 days of cursing and advice from my brother (whom is an airframer in the Navy) and my welder buddy, it was removed with no major issue.

    Other than that is has been pretty simple to do so far. The remaining projects are to eliminate the middle resonator with a straight pipe and Cerakote all the exhaust after the manifold.

    Oh... and tune the hell out of it!!!

    Yes Guys.... logs to follow!
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    For those whose porn is numbers....

    First tunes and logs... generously advanced by Tyler from barely drive-able to "Holy Crap... this thing will be fast!"

    And some of my meager attempts to continue the improvements.... with logs!

    Homeward log is where it is now tuned... Still working on improving the off the line performance and will need to eventually add the Meth to the mix, but it is very drive-able.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexOlen View Post
    Oh those valves brings back bad memories from my engine build

    I would love to look through whats changed in your tune when going to the K04, I'm considering going for a EFR-6758 instead of my K03 once I have ironed out all little bugs in my build.
    Did you upgrade the intercooler as well?

    Cheers,
    Alex
    Hey Alex,

    Yeah... the valves were bad, but what was really scary was when I opened it back up at 15k for a water pump replacement... and found they looked just about the same!!! Made me realize I needed a 5th injector or meth to clean them!!!

    Yeah, I upgraded all the IC and plumbing while I was in there. No point to a bigger fan if you use the same hoses!!!

    I made my own kit sized to the turbo rather than one of those over-sized monsters installed for looks!

    I may eventually install a meth nozzle pre-IC to help cool things if needed. The options are endless!

    KS

  8. #8
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    Great car, great thread and great build!

    At some point in the future when I win the lottery, I'm hoping to swap the engine in my '12 A4 for one with two more cylinders and a supercharger. But there are some serious technical hurdles to doing that.

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    So here's some general questions that will surely help clarify things a bit for me and maybe allow me to focus on other things.

    Just what is/is not acceptable spark retard?

    When it's pulling spark at a specific point that doesn't actually have a value (i.e. 4500rpm/215 Load... Spark is 7, but there is no 7 on the map?!?!?) is that value extrapolated from between the two closest points?? i.e. 10 and 5 would give you 7.5.

    I'm seeing it pull spark while cruising on very light throttle/low boost. Is that normal? Where do you start to worry (boost wise) about it pulling spark?

    I am focused on spark at the moment simply because I am trying to get it "perfect" before attempting to tweak for any power but wondering just far down the rabbit hole I need to go.

    Here's a log and current tune from last nights drive home. It was high 80s with 70+% humidity.

    Cheers!

    Ken
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botbasher View Post
    So here's some general questions that will surely help clarify things a bit for me and maybe allow me to focus on other things.

    Just what is/is not acceptable spark retard?

    When it's pulling spark at a specific point that doesn't actually have a value (i.e. 4500rpm/215 Load... Spark is 7, but there is no 7 on the map?!?!?) is that value extrapolated from between the two closest points?? i.e. 10 and 5 would give you 7.5.

    I'm seeing it pull spark while cruising on very light throttle/low boost. Is that normal? Where do you start to worry (boost wise) about it pulling spark?

    I am focused on spark at the moment simply because I am trying to get it "perfect" before attempting to tweak for any power but wondering just far down the rabbit hole I need to go.

    Here's a log and current tune from last nights drive home. It was high 80s with 70+% humidity.

    Cheers!

    Ken
    Ideally to make the most consistent power you'll run no knock retard at all but that is difficult to achieve and takes a long time of logging/tuning.

    I would say a safe/effective tune in general will have no more than 4.5-6* of knock retard, on average, at its greatest point but even that's a bit much.

    Might i ask about your lambda target and what youre trying to accomplish with it being on the lean side at peak torque? i normally run a .82-.81 on most stage 2 pushed cars (22-23psi peak boost) that run 94oct fuel locally and have had really good results getting great timing out of them, but anything lower than 94 oct normally requires .79-.78 at peak torque at least to not have overly aggressive timing pull

  11. #11
    Ok so I have a 2011 Avant with CAEB, CTS k04-0064 and IE tune. Recently i was getting random correction of 2-3? in all cylinders at various rpm ranges. Ran car down to empty, filled up at shell hoping it was bad gas, put some fuel treatment in and pulled and regapped plugs down to 24. I now have 2.25?correction only in cylinder 4 and only above 6200 rpm. Around January the car just suddenly didnt feel like it used to, MAF dropped from high 320 g/s to the 260s. Increased the crack pressure on the WG now in the 290s for maf but was getting all the correction. Still not sure what is causing the # 4 cyl to have the correction but i am noticing in several of the other guys with a k04.

    Would be interested in seeing what kind of power you are making and how fast you are spooling up both boost and MAF. If Tyler can help might flash back to stock then try to tune it with HPT. But probably not until they get all the PIDS b8.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bb-tt View Post
    Ok so I have a 2011 Avant with CAEB, CTS k04-0064 and IE tune. Recently i was getting random correction of 2-3? in all cylinders at various rpm ranges. Ran car down to empty, filled up at shell hoping it was bad gas, put some fuel treatment in and pulled and regapped plugs down to 24. I now have 2.25?correction only in cylinder 4 and only above 6200 rpm. Around January the car just suddenly didnt feel like it used to, MAF dropped from high 320 g/s to the 260s. Increased the crack pressure on the WG now in the 290s for maf but was getting all the correction. Still not sure what is causing the # 4 cyl to have the correction but i am noticing in several of the other guys with a k04.

    Would be interested in seeing what kind of power you are making and how fast you are spooling up both boost and MAF. If Tyler can help might flash back to stock then try to tune it with HPT. But probably not until they get all the PIDS b8.
    Yo post a .hpl of that car with Basically everything logged I would love to see some professional tune in action especially for a K04
    Last edited by TylerJDubbs; 06-13-2020 at 04:30 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TylerJDubbs View Post
    Yo post a .hpl of that car with Basically everything logged I would love to see some professional tune in action especially for a K04
    links to logs below you can see last year when it was dialed in it was slightly overboosting 2psi from 3800 to 4200 rpm and then half a psi for a little while higher in the band. this year it suddenly was only making 20 psi

    here is a 3rd gear pull using vcds last year when the car was running strong
    https://datazap.me/u/bb-tt/2019-03-0...0&data=0-2-3-4

    IE log last year 3rd gear
    https://datazap.me/u/bb-tt/2019-03-3...0&data=5-24-25


    3-5th low boost before tightening waste gate early may when not making requested boost
    https://datazap.me/u/bb-tt/2020-05-0...0&data=1-22-23


    Vcds after tightening wg 4th gear
    https://datazap.me/u/bb-tt/2020-05-1...data=1-8-10-11


    with hpt after tightening the wg 4th gear using hpt to log
    https://datazap.me/u/bb-tt/2020-05-1...ata=2-15-16-18


    Here is a log using IE logger after tightening wg 3&4 th gear pull
    https://datazap.me/u/bb-tt/2020-05-0...ata=6-20-25-26

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bb-tt View Post
    links to logs below you can see last year when it was dialed in it was slightly overboosting 2psi from 3800 to 4200 rpm and then half a psi for a little while higher in the band. this year it suddenly was only making 20 psi

    here is a 3rd gear pull using vcds last year when the car was running strong
    https://datazap.me/u/bb-tt/2019-03-0...0&data=0-2-3-4

    IE log last year 3rd gear
    https://datazap.me/u/bb-tt/2019-03-3...0&data=5-24-25


    3-5th low boost before tightening waste gate early may when not making requested boost
    https://datazap.me/u/bb-tt/2020-05-0...0&data=1-22-23


    Vcds after tightening wg 4th gear
    https://datazap.me/u/bb-tt/2020-05-1...data=1-8-10-11


    with hpt after tightening the wg 4th gear using hpt to log
    https://datazap.me/u/bb-tt/2020-05-1...ata=2-15-16-18


    Here is a log using IE logger after tightening wg 3&4 th gear pull
    https://datazap.me/u/bb-tt/2020-05-0...ata=6-20-25-26
    any chance you could just post an .HPL?

  15. #15
    i can but still waiting for them to correct the missing pids. And haven't really been logging engine data with hpt as i was trying to log transmission stuff. was experimenting with it hoping it would have a higher data capture rate but it does not appear to be any better than vcds once you start logging more than a few datapoints

    Here is a 1-4th run from last week.20-06-07 15-29-49.hpl

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    We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming!!!

    I was advised that I may have driven myself in the weeds a bit (Thanks Tyler!), so I reverted to a know good tune and started the process over!

    Here are a couple of very LONG logs and the tune for them I took while driving into the hills this weekend. I see that I have some severe retarding on high boost/high load areas. Would you guys agree?

    I got the chance to tweak the tune last night and romped on it a bit this morning on the way to work. It was raining so every time I got to triple digits hydroplaning or traffic (can you imagine!! ) became an issue, so they are just short pulls.

    Still seeing a little pull at the top but it seems more focused and shorter in duration.

    What ya think? Little more to correct but I think I can start working on dialing in the boost!!

    Cheers!

    KS
    Last edited by Botbasher; 06-16-2020 at 09:46 AM.

  17. #17
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    where did you copy those timing tables from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerJDubbs View Post
    where did you copy those timing tables from?
    In Test 3? They are Base 5 (Yours) that I moved some points downward along the line of Load and RPM.

    Why? What are you seeing?

    KS

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botbasher View Post
    In Test 3? They are Base 5 (Yours) that I moved some points downward along the line of Load and RPM.

    Why? What are you seeing?

    KS
    I was just trying to figure out why there was so much changed at low load areas because the problem is higher load areas for knock retard

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bb-tt View Post
    i can but still waiting for them to correct the missing pids. And haven't really been logging engine data with hpt as i was trying to log transmission stuff. was experimenting with it hoping it would have a higher data capture rate but it does not appear to be any better than vcds once you start logging more than a few datapoints

    Here is a 1-4th run from last week.20-06-07 15-29-49.hpl
    WOW! i just had a long look at the IE tune for k04 and its running around 25psi peak with a .83-.82 lambda which is resulting in sometimes negative timing and most of the pull is around 0.5 - 2* of advance seems like very inefficient ignition angle, can you take an updated HPL when you have a chance using my layout?