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Thread: 2016 Mustang GT low dyno numbers

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    2016 Mustang GT low dyno numbers

    I just tuned 2016 Mustang GT with LT headers / JLT CAI and exhaust system. I am very upset from the number it made on the dyno. It only made 365whp which I think is low. I was hoping for at least 380whp. The weather is very hot in my area, its around 125F. Could that be the reason? the tune? or maybe the engine is abused and started to lose the power ? Also the gas is 93 octane and around 3 percent ethanol. I attached the file with the log. I would appreciate if someone can look the the files and comment on it.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    2017 Taurus SHO downpipes, 3bar map sensor
    1999 Mustang gt 5.4L S/C

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    There are a lot of variables to these questions. Dynojet or mustang dyno? Are they corrected numbers? Are they SAE? Tires, wheels or any heavy rotating mass. And yes 125* temp could very well have had a part in those numbers. The tune could very well have had a part in it. Too many things to worry about. What I try and focus on is improving you numbers when you go next and more importantly improving you times and drive ability of the car. Sorry I’m on my iPad so I can view the logs or tune right now.

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    Looks like you were running into detonation. Causing you to miss out on a few degrees of timing.

    The only thing I really see is, your fueling isn't really under control, its swinging a lot. This can be a cause of detonation. I would put your enrichment rates back to stock, .050 and .500, And see if that helps. If it doesnt then I would say the gas octane is just the limit.

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    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    stock cam angles will not yield the most power
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    Hey! Get rid of those (SAE) channels and use the regular ones. SAE channels are slow! Just look at the update rate of those things...

    I think between the timing being a bit low and the temperature that rwhp # isn't terrible but if you get that timing up and you should hit your 380whp target. My car NA on E10~93 octane fuel regularly saw 26 to 28 degrees @ 6500~7000rpm.
    Knock Retard is like a Horsepower Tax: (+) Knock Retard = Less Net Power, (--) Knock Retard = More Net Power.

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

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    Advanced Tuner mbray01's Avatar
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    i typically see 415 auto/425 manual with same mods, at 27 degrees timing, and .84 lambda.

    how much time did you spend dialing everything in, or did you just make a few quick pulls.

    the temp alone isnt killing 50hp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relentless View Post
    There are a lot of variables to these questions. Dynojet or mustang dyno? Are they corrected numbers? Are they SAE? Tires, wheels or any heavy rotating mass. And yes 125* temp could very well have had a part in those numbers. The tune could very well have had a part in it. Too many things to worry about. What I try and focus on is improving you numbers when you go next and more importantly improving you times and drive ability of the car. Sorry I’m on my iPad so I can view the logs or tune right now.
    Its a dynojet SAE corrected numbers. Everything else is stock including wheels and other rotating masses except the CAI, LTH and the exhaust system.
    2017 Taurus SHO downpipes, 3bar map sensor
    1999 Mustang gt 5.4L S/C

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    Quote Originally Posted by murfie View Post
    Looks like you were running into detonation. Causing you to miss out on a few degrees of timing.

    The only thing I really see is, your fueling isn't really under control, its swinging a lot. This can be a cause of detonation. I would put your enrichment rates back to stock, .050 and .500, And see if that helps. If it doesnt then I would say the gas octane is just the limit.
    Thanks Murfie for the input. I thought negative knock retard is adding timing for the channel I am logging. The actual timing is more than the commanded in the used mapped borderline tables so this make me think the knock sensor is adding timing. I will try to return the enrichment rate back to stock and see if that will improve the fueling.
    2017 Taurus SHO downpipes, 3bar map sensor
    1999 Mustang gt 5.4L S/C

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    Quote Originally Posted by SultanHassanMasTuning View Post
    stock cam angles will not yield the most power
    Thanks Sultan for the reply. I tried to adjust the cam timing and every change I made result in power lose and advance timing drop. Any suggestion for the cam tuning?
    Last edited by yaqoubalmounes; 3 Days Ago at 05:23 PM.
    2017 Taurus SHO downpipes, 3bar map sensor
    1999 Mustang gt 5.4L S/C

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbray01 View Post
    i typically see 415 auto/425 manual with same mods, at 27 degrees timing, and .84 lambda.

    how much time did you spend dialing everything in, or did you just make a few quick pulls.

    the temp alone isnt killing 50hp
    Well I spent around 4 hours of pulls and adjusting. It could be the factor of high temp and the gas. After the dyno I has a pull in the street to make sure the car drive good with no hesitation and no KR. The log show 1 kr in 4th gear and had to pull 1 degree of timing just to make sure the car is in safe.
    2017 Taurus SHO downpipes, 3bar map sensor
    1999 Mustang gt 5.4L S/C

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbolt22 View Post
    Hey! Get rid of those (SAE) channels and use the regular ones. SAE channels are slow! Just look at the update rate of those things...

    I think between the timing being a bit low and the temperature that rwhp # isn't terrible but if you get that timing up and you should hit your 380whp target. My car NA on E10~93 octane fuel regularly saw 26 to 28 degrees @ 6500~7000rpm.
    Good advice thanks I will next time. I could not see anyway to advance more timing especially in the street it has 1 deg of kr with same tune posted.
    2017 Taurus SHO downpipes, 3bar map sensor
    1999 Mustang gt 5.4L S/C

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaqoubalmounes View Post
    Well I spent around 4 hours of pulls and adjusting. It could be the factor of high temp and the gas. After the dyno I has a pull in the street to make sure the car drive good with no hesitation and no KR. The log show 1 kr in 4th gear and had to pull 1 degree of timing just to make sure the car is in safe.
    Do you have better gas to try or what about some octane adders?
    Knock Retard is like a Horsepower Tax: (+) Knock Retard = Less Net Power, (--) Knock Retard = More Net Power.

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

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    Yeah negative is adding timing, you were getting to about 6, till it back down to 3. It didn't look like you touched the borderline tables that much, and it was only getting to 22-23*. should be more like 26-28*, which is what you would get if it would add the normal 8-10* instead of 3*.

    Do you have a catch can? Have you tried disconnecting the PCV system and plugging the holes in the intake, and just venting the crank case? If you were running a PCV catch can or not, have you checked the dirty/ oillyness of the inside of the manifold, usually the back of the throttle blade is very telling. Then when was the last time you changed the plugs, or at least checked their gap and cleaned them?
    Last edited by murfie; 3 Days Ago at 02:16 AM.
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    Need more spark, can u also log engine brake torque,cam angles, and maybe target 0.85 instead of .835

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    Quote Originally Posted by SultanHassanMasTuning View Post
    stock cam angles will not yield the most power
    Actually stock cam angles are as good as it gets for stock manifold.

    OP, your timing is low to say the least. You are hitting the MAP limit which is caused by your MAF curve that was horribly modified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by veeefour View Post
    Actually stock cam angles are as good as it gets for stock manifold.

    OP, your timing is low to say the least. You are hitting the MAP limit which is caused by your MAF curve that was horribly modified.
    Can you explain why the maf modification is horrible? I didn't find any maf transfer function for the JLT intake so I decided to multiply the maf by 1.5 and start from there to get the error as close as possible to 0%
    2017 Taurus SHO downpipes, 3bar map sensor
    1999 Mustang gt 5.4L S/C

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaqoubalmounes View Post
    Can you explain why the maf modification is horrible? I didn't find any maf transfer function for the JLT intake so I decided to multiply the maf by 1.5 and start from there to get the error as close as possible to 0%
    Make yours (left) look like this (right). It needs to be smooth and definitely shouldn't have any straight lines. It's a curve.

    MAF Curve Bad.PNGMAF Curve Good.PNG
    Knock Retard is like a Horsepower Tax: (+) Knock Retard = Less Net Power, (--) Knock Retard = More Net Power.

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

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    Email jlt, they may provide you with a maf curve