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Thread: Coyote Copperhead 101 flow chart feedback

  1. #1

    Coyote Copperhead 101 flow chart feedback

    I'm in the midst of writing a book about modifying 2011-14 Mustangs, and one of the chapters will be an overview ABOUT tuning using HPtuners software as a reference. This won't really be a "how to" guide to tuning, but rather give the reader an overview on some of the basics of how the Copperhead makes the Coyote run.

    In that vain, I've tried to make a flow chart that shows the basic "thought process" that the Copperhead goes through during engine operation. Remember: the idea here is a BASIC overview to someone who basically knows nothing about how this system works (which was me a couple months ago).

    I'd appreciate any feedback you guys have. Am I on the right track here?

    Engine Management Flowchart-01.jpg

  2. #2
    Tuner in Training
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    I don't know much about the Coyote, but here are a few comments for what it's worth:

    1) There are no PCM inputs to the MAF sensor, just the physical intake air. I know the cam timing and throttle body position affect this, but they are not inputs to the MAF sensor.
    2) The calculated torque uses more than just airflow from MAF. It also uses the cam position, engine RPM, etc. Basically it calculates a VE model to determine how much air actually went into the cylinder. This is why cam position is used to take into account blow through, etc.

  3. #3
    Noted with thanks. I've revised the chart as follows. See if this makes more sense.

    Engine Management Flowchart-01.jpg

  4. #4
    Advanced Tuner
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    Great idea, but sadly I have little input. I was actually thinking of doing something just like that for 2018+....once I decipher it myself.

    Where do the speed-density tables play in?

  5. #5
    not sure its best to use this type of simple flow diagram. If your writing a book I would officially contact Murfie or Greg Banish for professional consulting.

    There is a lot more to it, and more details that are important, at least it is in my opinion if your putting something to print.

  6. #6
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    I started putting something like this together myself, for a 2018. I have a decent amount of it figured out, but I can't seem to get from "load" to "ETC effective area".

    Best I can tell.....Driver demand\APP -> Pedal Characteristics translation -> Look up Desired Torque @ pedal % and rpm (Driver Demand Engine Torque) -> Look up Calculated Air Load @ Desired Torque, Mapped Point, and rpm (Inverse Torque table) -> yields target Air Load.

    Then, under Airflow\Electronic Throttle\Throttle Body Model\Effective Area is used to convert ETC Effective Area to a commanded Throttle Angle. I see PID control parameters for the throttle control, but I can't seem to draw a connection from Calculated Air Load to ETC Effective Area.

    Any guidance would be appreciated.
    Last edited by engineermike; 07-11-2020 at 06:41 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by engineermike View Post
    Any guidance would be appreciated.
    Embrace the mystery.

  8. #8

    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmikebrown View Post
    Embrace the mystery.
    I do that every day!

  9. #9
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    No sweat, I figured it out.

  10. #10
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    All kidding aside, I believe the Effective Area is used to estimate manifold pressure/vacuum to use as a starting point. The ECU translates driver demand to a desired air mass and then finds the throttle angle that corresponds to that air mass at that RPM. If that throttle angle is within a certain range it will adapt accordingly and smooth out over time.

  11. #11
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    In order to predict the desired opening of a control valve you need 4 basic pieces of information: valve trim characteristic or Cv, dP across the valve, desired flow rate, and fluid properties. The Cv is related to the throttle body effective area and easily predictable/measurable. The dP I believe is determined by the speed density model, which uses flow and engine speed to back calculate plenum pressure. Desired flow rate is of course easily determined based on load, engine size, and engine speed. And finally the fluid properties of air are well understood. The PCM is essentially working backwards through the speed density model and control valve model to determine the effective area. Once it has the effective area, there’s a lookup table (44363) to use the plenum pressure (from SD model) to cross it over to a throttle angle that can be commanded, measured, and controlled using a PID controller.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by engineermike View Post
    Once it has the effective area, there’s a lookup table (44363) to use the plenum pressure (from SD model) to cross it over to a throttle angle that can be commanded, measured, and controlled using a PID controller.
    It's probably worth adding some speed density related stuff to the flow chart. I don't see any table like that in my copperhead strategy but there are a few other parameters that could be added to the flow.