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Thread: Quick guide to simultaneous VVE/MAF calibration for gen4+

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjtrbo View Post
    If anyone is struggling with the formula(s) here is a cheat sheet to put it together for you.

    Edit:
    5 Nov 2021, version 2 sheet attached. If you've successfully used revision 1 there is no change to the formulas it spits out. Just made it easier for guys who hate long math parameters to get up and running.

    Ive been following this thread for awhile and made the user math formulas myself manually (thanks to everyone's help here) and just started to get back into this to actually apply whats in this thread now that my Cam swap is complete.

    I was struggling to get the spreadsheet to work to make sure I'm doing this correctly. I found I had to change the "Working 1" tab Math Parameters section, mine were erroring out. I had to change them from CONCAT to CONCATENATE and it seems to be working fine now. I also imported it into Google Docs for easier viewing if anyone is interested. Full credit to hjtrbo for putting this spreadsheet together and smokeshow for making the maths!

    Google docs link to the spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...pPZao5MHAbMQVs
    Last edited by UTGS; 12-03-2021 at 08:45 PM.

  2. #122
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    Looks good. Thanks for fixing that issue.

  3. #123
    Hi I am following this discussion for a while, I got an e67 ecm 2012 ctsv and I did speed density first using the eq ratio formula in hp tuners 100*([50119.238]-[50118.238])/[50118.238]) disabling maf and oxygen sensors, looking at the graph in the hp tuners scanner the eq error and the graph are super accurate, began trying the formula below with all the sensors, short and long term active and I have not drive steady just 1 test drive but when compare the readings the math below is almost the opposite when it says is 4% leaner with the new formula is 6% richer, the basic formula is more accurate, any suggestion is welcome.


    MathParameter Name="EQRatio Error Map" Abbreviation="" Expression="(([16.71.avg(200)]*(1+([50119.238.avg(200)]-[50118.238.avg(200)])/[50118.238.avg(200)])-[50070.56.avg(200)]/60*4*[11.92.avg(200)]*[2312.avg(200)]/[2126.240.avg(200)])/([50070.56.avg(200)]/60*4*[11.92.avg(200)]*[2312.avg(200)]/[2126.240.avg(200)]))*100" Unit="156" Decimals="2" Notes=""/>

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeshow View Post
    Lol. So, my initial idea for a part two was to address an issue that compromised the results of this procedure....MAF reversion. If you're not familiar, this is a phenomenon that occurs (usually) with aftermarket intake tubes. Reversion is exactly what it sounds like - reversal of flow. When you add a camshaft that has a late IVC angle and/or pair it up with a new intake tube (or if you are bone stock, in the case of the LS2 GTO), often times what you've done is create an environment for 'pneumatic communication' of the camshaft with the MAF sensor. The big cam closes the intake valve late, and at low RPM pushes some charge back out of the cylinder before the valve closes. This causes a pressure rise in the intake and the reversal of flow. The flow reversal can result in high OR low measured mass airflow relative to actual mass flow, depending on the hardware itself. The problem then became, how do I use sensor measurement as a reference for correction to an airflow model when the sensor may unpredictably yield inaccurate results? It is easy enough to pick the error out of a graph with your eyes, but not so easy within a set of collected data, and definitely not possible with HP Tuners due to the slow data collection rate and limitations of the scanner itself. I used to calibrate with a tool called Inca which was capable of data collection as fast as the controller execution loops updated the variables...but that doesn't happen on CAN that HPT uses. The data comes in scheduled and slow and doesn't provide a signal I can use that allows me to separate the error from it. Haven't figured out a way around that yet and not sure if I will. At least not without scripting in MATLAB, which few have access to.

    That said, I've gotten requests a few times for a procedure on data filtering. Not really a 'part 2', but is still relevant and can help eliminate some error that you may find when calibrating with this procedure. Is there any interest for a 'how to' on data filtering?
    Awesome information! This helps me tremendously! Did you ever get around to making that 'how to' on data filtering? I'd love to give that a study.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedMonger View Post
    Awesome information! This helps me tremendously! Did you ever get around to making that 'how to' on data filtering? I'd love to give that a study.
    No lol. I haven't been able to decide on a way to deliver the information without it becoming a physics class. The alternative to that is not using HP Tuners at all for filtering and just doing it like the OEMs do...but not everybody is nerdy enough to have a MATLAB license and post-process the data manually. It doesn't help that the HPT scanner hasn't gained any real functionality in like a decade... Some data just can't be properly filtered in real time and the scanner doesn't provide any additional capability with pre-collected data. Somebody should complain

  6. #126
    Advanced Tuner ttz06vette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeshow View Post
    No lol. I haven't been able to decide on a way to deliver the information without it becoming a physics class. The alternative to that is not using HP Tuners at all for filtering and just doing it like the OEMs do...but not everybody is nerdy enough to have a MATLAB license and post-process the data manually. It doesn't help that the HPT scanner hasn't gained any real functionality in like a decade... Some data just can't be properly filtered in real time and the scanner doesn't provide any additional capability with pre-collected data. Somebody should complain
    That’s OK, my car has never ran better with the filtering formulas you and others in this thread have already provided. My car was originally tuned from LPE with pure MAF and stock VE tables. It had a wicked tip in lean spot no matter how I messed with MAF curve, timing, pulse width, etc. After tuning VVE through this thread, the tip in is gone, and I can actually keep MAF engaged at 1500RPM or move it up to 4K RPM with no changes in drivability or fuel trims. Still letting MAF handle WOT for now but my next project is trying the WB formulas to tune VE in those areas as well. Would have been so easy to have done this years ago at LPE with their Dyno but then again I wouldn’t have learned what I had to learn myself. :-)
    Last edited by ttz06vette; 03-02-2022 at 10:55 AM.

  7. #127
    This is still the thread I keep coming back to, to re-read and relearn what I missed the times I read it before. This has got to be one of best threads I've come across.

  8. #128
    Potential Tuner crazyz71's Avatar
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    I am new here and I can't seem to find out how to start a new post. I am currently working on three trucks at this moment. A 1986 with a built Ls3, an 89 GMC K1500 that will get some form of a ls swap just haven't settled on which one. The last one is the one i have a question about. It is a 2005 Silverado Z71 crew cab, currently is has a pretty tired 5.3 in it. I bought a LQ9 for it and I plan on putting it in on my next visit home. I am new to tunning and don't know what all needs to be changed in the tune because of the swap. I do have Hp tuners mpvi2 pro, I have already started on the tune when i was going to delete the cats off the truck. The new set up is going to be a stock LQ9 with speed engineering 1 3/4 long tube headers with their off-road y-pipe. it has a single in duel out 14-inch magnflow muffler.
    Im looking for any help and possibly a stock map to mess with. any help would be much appreciated.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeshow View Post
    No lol. I haven't been able to decide on a way to deliver the information without it becoming a physics class. The alternative to that is not using HP Tuners at all for filtering and just doing it like the OEMs do...but not everybody is nerdy enough to have a MATLAB license and post-process the data manually. It doesn't help that the HPT scanner hasn't gained any real functionality in like a decade... Some data just can't be properly filtered in real time and the scanner doesn't provide any additional capability with pre-collected data. Somebody should complain
    Would you know if the MATLAB Home license has everything one might need for tuning purposes?

  10. #130
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    I have matlab. Care to share what we need to know smokeshow?

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjtrbo View Post
    I have matlab. Care to share what we need to know smokeshow?
    It depends on what you need to know

    Quote Originally Posted by eXo3901 View Post
    Would you know if the MATLAB Home license has everything one might need for tuning purposes?
    I wouldn't look at it as a tooning tool...its an everything tool. But the sky is the limit in terms of how you can make it manipulate something like scanner data. The learning curve is steep...but worth it. It also happens to be the parent application for the tool GM uses to develop all of the ECM software in the car that you toon.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeshow View Post
    It depends on what you need to know .
    Lol, set the seed and show me something basic. Might open up a few ideas up for me.

  13. #133
    Advanced Tuner Ghostnotes's Avatar
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    So will this work on an E92? I'm assuming yes?
    I always tune VVE....
    2016 C7 M7 Z51
    Callies ultra billet crank
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  14. #134
    Hi Guys I am using an E67 ecm and in the formula using wide band ask for 36 for wb bank 1 but I seem cant find item 36 just 50119 for wideband and it deleted when running the log and throw numbers off, how can I get that wide band item 36 to show on the channels, thanks for the help.

  15. #135
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    Just a weird quirk that I noticed when setting this up. Using both the equation that smokeshow provided, and the calculator that hjtrbo and UTGS worked on, I was not getting the correct percentages. As it turns out, I have to wrap the entire equation in parenthesis in order to get the *100 at the end to actually resolve. I don't know if anyone else experienced this. The rest of the calculation seemed to work, but the multiply by 100 to get the actual percentage wasn't resolving.

  16. #136
    Tuner in Training VonRottes's Avatar
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    I think I've read this thread a dozen times since April.. Just wanted to double check how to use this information.
    The GMVE_CL and PE can just be pasted % Half, just like logging EQ error from a wideband?
    and the MAF would be the same just LTFT+STFT against the the MAF Freq. ?

    or is there something else I'm missing here, Haven't used this stuff yet I just did a quick log to make sure the parameters were all working.

  17. #137
    Tuner Dave_In_VA's Avatar
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    Has anybody done a "how to" on how to conduct GMVE scanning?

    I'm not talking about how to configure a GMVE formula in Scanner.

    I've got the GMVE formula working with my LM2 wideband. Just not sure how to properly configure the engine to get a good read.

    Questions I think about include:
    - Is the car in MAF only mode or are both MAF and SD functions enabled.
    - Can a standard MAF error chart be used to modify MAF when doing GMVE focused scans?



    Thanks,

    Dave
    2005 Corvette, Z51, 6sp Coupe:
    - TSP ported/milled LS3 heads
    - 11:1 compression
    - Ported OEM LS3 intake & LS2 throttle body
    - 222/230 113 +3, 0 degree overlap w/1.7 rockers
    - Comp 1.8 roller rockers
    - Lift w/1.8 rockers .630/.621
    - Johnson 2110 lifters
    - OEM LS3/7 Injectors
    - LS3/7 style CAI w/blade MAF sensor
    - Std. speed ATI balancer
    - C5r timing chain
    - ARH 1 7/8 headers w/cats
    - C6 Grand Sport MPP Mufflers with NPP in a Box
    - C7 ZR1 Style wheels: 18x9.5, 19x11
    - C6 Z06 Brakes

  18. #138
    Tuner Dave_In_VA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonRottes View Post
    I think I've read this thread a dozen times since April.. Just wanted to double check how to use this information.
    The GMVE_CL and PE can just be pasted % Half, just like logging EQ error from a wideband?
    and the MAF would be the same just LTFT+STFT against the the MAF Freq. ?

    or is there something else I'm missing here, Haven't used this stuff yet I just did a quick log to make sure the parameters were all working.

    Hey, the formula builder spreadsheet on page 2 or 3 (I think) by @hjtrbo (again I think) is a great resource. I used it along with forum guidance help to get my GMVE formulas and graphs working.
    2005 Corvette, Z51, 6sp Coupe:
    - TSP ported/milled LS3 heads
    - 11:1 compression
    - Ported OEM LS3 intake & LS2 throttle body
    - 222/230 113 +3, 0 degree overlap w/1.7 rockers
    - Comp 1.8 roller rockers
    - Lift w/1.8 rockers .630/.621
    - Johnson 2110 lifters
    - OEM LS3/7 Injectors
    - LS3/7 style CAI w/blade MAF sensor
    - Std. speed ATI balancer
    - C5r timing chain
    - ARH 1 7/8 headers w/cats
    - C6 Grand Sport MPP Mufflers with NPP in a Box
    - C7 ZR1 Style wheels: 18x9.5, 19x11
    - C6 Z06 Brakes

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_In_VA View Post
    Hey, the formula builder spreadsheet on page 2 or 3 (I think) by @hjtrbo (again I think) is a great resource. I used it along with forum guidance help to get my GMVE formulas and graphs working.
    Thanks for the feedback. Page 5 . Credit to smokeshow for sharing this method and formulas with us.
    Last edited by hjtrbo; 06-08-2022 at 06:25 PM.

  20. #140
    Tuner Dave_In_VA's Avatar
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    @hjtrbo, I'm good with spreadsheets, but yours is truly impressive...

    I could not have got my GMVE formulas to work without it!

    Dave
    2005 Corvette, Z51, 6sp Coupe:
    - TSP ported/milled LS3 heads
    - 11:1 compression
    - Ported OEM LS3 intake & LS2 throttle body
    - 222/230 113 +3, 0 degree overlap w/1.7 rockers
    - Comp 1.8 roller rockers
    - Lift w/1.8 rockers .630/.621
    - Johnson 2110 lifters
    - OEM LS3/7 Injectors
    - LS3/7 style CAI w/blade MAF sensor
    - Std. speed ATI balancer
    - C5r timing chain
    - ARH 1 7/8 headers w/cats
    - C6 Grand Sport MPP Mufflers with NPP in a Box
    - C7 ZR1 Style wheels: 18x9.5, 19x11
    - C6 Z06 Brakes