42lb injectors/issues

[02Z0h6]

This thread should make my red top install interesting...

No doubt. I bought a set of red tops prior to the 42's and the car ran like crap too. Come to find out some kid on the Corral sold me 8 V6 Explorer injectors. Only way to tell the difference is through the part number on the side and I didn't verify as they looked legit.
Here I am with these 42's accompanied with flowsheet and it ain't running much better. Nothing ever goes easy for me it seems. I'm going to see how it runs with Russ' table right now.

[muncie21]

O2Zoh6, are you running the green top SVOs, or the black Lucas/Delphi 42's?

[02Z0h6]

O2Zoh6, are you running the green top SVOs, or the black Lucas/Delphi 42's?

I'm running Bosch 42's, not green tops though. There right here http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/6-Bos...QQcmdZViewItem

Anyway, I flashed the car with the Russ' table and it ran the same. Terrible. My trims on the other hand all went negative. Some of them way negative. I usually get a lean start-up but now my start-up is way rich, in the 12.9 range and works it's way back up to 14.7 after about 5 min. Is there a period of time you have to wait for injectors & pcm to come into synch? I want to wait longer but with the misfire code/check engine and the car stalling when coming to a stop I can't bear to drive it. It's embarassing. I wish I had a set of aftermarket injectors which work well in someone else's LS1 to try out and verify these ones I have are OK or not.
I threw the stock ones back in the car for now and I'll see how it behaves over the next couple of days and go from there.
Thanks for everyones responses and help. I would have caved long ago and brought the car to a pro without you guys.

[Russ K]

I looked at one of your tunes, and the maf table is 25 % higher than stock at 3125 hz, and 15 % higher at 8750 hz than stock. The maf fail freq. was still at 13500 hz. So were is your maf table at now? Do you still have the spark under & overspeed tables at 0? You don't want these tables at 0, maybe reduced a bit, or shifted over one column because of your camshaft.

Russ Kemp

[02Z0h6]

I looked at one of your tunes, and the maf table is 25 % higher than stock at 3125 hz, and 15 % higher at 8750 hz than stock. The maf fail freq. was still at 13500 hz. So were is your maf table at now? Do you still have the spark under & overspeed tables at 0? You don't want these tables at 0, maybe reduced a bit, or shifted over one column because of your camshaft.

Russ Kemp

You're right Russ! Even though I have 1 bar SD I forgot to set the fail freq to 0. I bought that credit last year and since I made so many mods this year I started with the stock tune and hacked it up from there. I know, I'm retarded
Anyway, I just took the car for a ride with the stock injectors and it runs pretty well save for the fact that when I come to a stop sometimes it seems like the tach wants to drop below idle and the car overcompensates (over&under???) and the revs jump up to 1300 or so and bounce around once or twice before settling. Other than that my stft's were looking good and the car didn't stumble or trigger the mil light like before with the 42's.
BTW Russ I did what you told me and shifted my over/underspeed tables one cell left and one right a while back and haven't touched it since. I haven't touched the maf table. I was under the impression they really didn't come into play much at low speeds and my idle is rock steady. Do you think that could be causing the intermittent hunt for idle when coming to a stop?
The 42's just didn't run well at all no matter which values I threw in there. Red Hard's or the ones you gave me. I dunno, my car just doesn't like anything other than stock injectors.
Here I thought swapping out injectors would be cake.
Thanks again Russ.

[Russ K]

With your maf table so high, that is why your rich with my IFR table! I still have the stock injectors in my car. I'm also SD tuned, and at 6950 rpm, my injector duty cycle is 87 % with the AFR at 13.0. If your maf table was put back to stock (since the maf was functioning) and you put those 42 lb injectors back in, I would like to bet that the fueling would be very close with my IFR table. This whole test was flawed because of (A) you were in maf mode and had the table jacked up (richer) and (B) any changes you made to the VE table won't help because your maf fail freq. was not set to 0. I could of tuned your car in less time!!

Russ Kemp

[02Z0h6]

With your maf table so high, that is why your rich with my IFR table! I still have the stock injectors in my car. I'm also SD tuned, and at 6950 rpm, my injector duty cycle is 87 % with the AFR at 13.0.

The last time I checked my duty cycle it was at 94% around 5700rpm. I didn't want to run it any higher than that. I'm not sure what it would be at 6500 with the stockers. My afr was around 12.8 -13.0.

If your maf table was put back to stock (since the maf was functioning) and you put those 42 lb injectors back in, I would like to bet that the fueling would be very close with my IFR table.

I agree. The tune I started with was labelled stock on my and I didn't bother to go through it and check. I recalibrated the maf via RHS spreadsheet a while back (intake&headers) and that's why it's altered.

I could of tuned your car in less time!!

Trust me, if you were close by I would have let you too. I would rather be beating on this this thing than jacking around with it. My buddy with a TB SS just finished his NX 150 kit with stall and full exhaust and has been bugging me to go to the track. My reply: "my car isn't ready yet."

So, everytime you change out the injectors then the maf must be rescaled also?

I appreciate your tenacity Russ. Thanks.

[Russ K]

If the IFR table is correct, than the maf table will be very close. But I thought you wanted to tune in SD? The VE table shouldn't need to be changed much if you install larger injectors IF the IFR table is correct.

Russ Kemp

[02Z0h6]

If the IFR table is correct, than the maf table will be very close. But I thought you wanted to tune in SD? The VE table shouldn't need to be changed much if you install larger injectors IF the IFR table is correct.

Russ Kemp

Initially I did. After reading up on SD vs. maf tunes (there's a very long thread on LS1Tech I believe) I decided I would get the tune as close as possible in SD mode and then re-enable the maf. Given my cam isn't very big, I thought this would be feasible. The problem is that my maf was enabled as you pointed out. I guess I was thinking since I applied the 1-bar version it automatically removed the maf from all pcm calcs. and that setting the fail freq. to 0 was just for the guys who didn't run the 1-barSD version.
My plan I guess now is to:

Leave the stock injectors in and disable the maf
Make sure my ve isn't way out of whack and adj. if nec.
Put the 42's back in and adjust the flowrate table
Check my ve again

Are my raf values now useless? I adjusted them with the stock injectors and maf enabled.

I'm still confused as to why my maf settings are throwing the car so far off when the 42's are installed. If the only table to be adjusted is the flowrate vs. kpa rate when changing injectors it stands to reason it should run the same no matter what size I throw in (provided the flowrate vs. kpa table is correct).

Thanks man.

[02Z0h6]

If the IFR table is correct, than the maf table will be very close. But I thought you wanted to tune in SD? The VE table shouldn't need to be changed much if you install larger injectors IF the IFR table is correct.

Russ Kemp

Just wanted to let you know Russ that after putting the car into SD mode I found the car was being way overfueled. I reduced my ve table by up to 8% below 4K and it runs much better. Also, I took it for a short 15 min ride tonight and no bouncing around at idle when coming to a stop. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it may be fixed now. Only problem is that it's 38* outside. No WOT tuning for me until spring.

[Russ K]

Just wanted to let you know Russ that after putting the car into SD mode I found the car was being way overfueled. I reduced my ve table by up to 8% below 4K and it runs much better. Also, I took it for a short 15 min ride tonight and no bouncing around at idle when coming to a stop. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it may be fixed now. Only problem is that it's 38* outside. No WOT tuning for me until spring.

Since your camshaft creates lower than stock vacuum at low rpm, your in a higher map row of the ve table (more fuel) I have a 234/228/.573 cam and at idle my ve table is ~35% less than stock using stock injectors. And at wot @ 3600 rpm, the ve table
is ~12% more than stock. This is with an actual/commanded 13.0 AFR.

Russ Kemp

[02Z0h6]

Since your camshaft creates lower than stock vacuum at low rpm, your in a higher map row of the ve table (more fuel) I have a 234/228/.573 cam and at idle my ve table is ~35% less than stock using stock injectors. And at wot @ 3600 rpm, the ve table
is ~12% more than stock. This is with an actual/commanded 13.0 AFR.

Russ Kemp

Just wanted to let you know Russ since you've helped me a great deal. I do have a bucking issue at around 15 or 1600rpm when letting off the gas and then depressing it to accelerate ever so slightly. If I can get that taken care of this year, I'll be a happy man. Thanks again man.

[red99]

I think there are a couple other things that should be turned off while you are tuning the VE table (if you haven't already done it). Ask Russ what they are. I would have to look it up again. One is for COT (Cat over temp). I think the other is for Deccal. There is also a stickey somewhere that shows all the things that need to be set for tuning the VE in SD mode.

[02Z0h6]

I think there are a couple other things that should be turned off while you are tuning the VE table (if you haven't already done it). Ask Russ what they are. I would have to look it up again. One is for COT (Cat over temp). I think the other is for Deccal. There is also a stickey somewhere that shows all the things that need to be set for tuning the VE in SD mode.

I have dfco off as well as cot. Thanks red.

[Harryb]

This is what your IFR table should be. This setting will reduce your LTFT by ~16%

Russ Kemp

What was this setting Russ I?m off