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Thread: 6.4 5r110 shifting tv psi & line psi translation

  1. #1

    6.4 5r110 shifting tv psi & line psi translation

    couple questions with torque based shifting off what happens to TV psi during a shift more so what part of the map is used to clamp?

    line psi translation with this map with torque based shifting off what part of this map is used?

    any other detailed info on effects of torque based off as well please and thanks

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by guy-ffc View Post
    couple questions with torque based shifting off what happens to TV psi during a shift more so what part of the map is used to clamp?

    line psi translation with this map with torque based shifting off what part of this map is used?

    any other detailed info on effects of torque based off as well please and thanks
    Im not sure if this is right but I believe it is TV intercept+torque*TV slope+pressure table. On my truck the units are out of wack and showing over 1000 psi all the time so im not sure what happening. What i have observed was a soft shift at 650 +ft-lbs, which i remedied by adding 0.025 to my TV slope. By my estimates this should have added ~16+ psi at the given torque output.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CKrueg View Post
    Im not sure if this is right but I believe it is TV intercept+torque*TV slope+pressure table. On my truck the units are out of wack and showing over 1000 psi all the time so im not sure what happening. What i have observed was a soft shift at 650 +ft-lbs, which i remedied by adding 0.025 to my TV slope. By my estimates this should have added ~16+ psi at the given torque output.
    are you running torque based shifts on or off? and what i wonder is which part of the translation map is actually used, i think its the base number or lowest value but hoping someone has been through this can chime in. i'm also waiting for HPT engineering to email me back. when you added to the slope did you apply this to the entire map?
    thanks for the reply!

  4. #4
    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy-ffc View Post
    are you running torque based shifts on or off? and what i wonder is which part of the translation map is actually used, i think its the base number or lowest value but hoping someone has been through this can chime in. i'm also waiting for HPT engineering to email me back. when you added to the slope did you apply this to the entire map?
    thanks for the reply!
    The slope is a way to add a consistent percentage or amount across the entire torque range vs the intercept adds a specific PSI value. If you add 10psi to the intercept it will be more firm down low when compared to up high as more torque equals more PSI. Say you're asking for 40psi at X torque down low, now you added 10psi to your intercept 10/40=.25 or 25% increase in pressure, now look at when the truck is making 160psi 10/160=.0625 or 6.25% increase in pressure. You can see there is a big difference in the percentage of pressure added based on torque by adding only to the intercept. I feel there are many tables that determine what the pressure is going to be when shifting as well as some that may override your slope x torque + intercept value, and you're right that typically it chooses the lowest of the two. The 6r140 uses the power on upshifts table to determine line pressure during the upshift, this table seems to override almost everything else. I also think there are some more tables not defined by HPT that adjust the pressure ever so slightly in certain areas. This is where you need to have been a ford calibrator or engineer to really know where all the tables are, what they do and which ones to change.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JaegerWrenching View Post
    The slope is a way to add a consistent percentage or amount across the entire torque range vs the intercept adds a specific PSI value. If you add 10psi to the intercept it will be more firm down low when compared to up high as more torque equals more PSI. Say you're asking for 40psi at X torque down low, now you added 10psi to your intercept 10/40=.25 or 25% increase in pressure, now look at when the truck is making 160psi 10/160=.0625 or 6.25% increase in pressure. You can see there is a big difference in the percentage of pressure added based on torque by adding only to the intercept. I feel there are many tables that determine what the pressure is going to be when shifting as well as some that may override your slope x torque + intercept value, and you're right that typically it chooses the lowest of the two. The 6r140 uses the power on upshifts table to determine line pressure during the upshift, this table seems to override almost everything else. I also think there are some more tables not defined by HPT that adjust the pressure ever so slightly in certain areas. This is where you need to have been a ford calibrator or engineer to really know where all the tables are, what they do and which ones to change.
    thank you sir, so when you say slope the table by the looks is listed by solenoid name so you added the amount per solenoid name and the difference is the slope for say right?
    and yes many tables not shown in HPT wish they would add more options/logging
    Last edited by Fummins_Tuning; 08-28-2020 at 05:48 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy-ffc View Post
    thank you sir, so when you say slope the table by the looks is listed by solenoid name so you added the amount per solenoid name and the difference is the slope for say right?
    and yes many tables not shown in HPT wish they would add more options/logging
    Post your tune and we can talk specific tables

  7. #7
    ok here is the last one as of yesterday, i moved 5a in trans tv slope - non shifting it now matches 3a. this is a file i pulled off while tuned with h&s but the main focus here is 3-5 shift which now i have near where i want it. i have made many other adjustemts as you can tel by the nameAttachment 102764

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy-ffc View Post
    ok here is the last one as of yesterday, i moved 5a in trans tv slope - non shifting it now matches 3a. this is a file i pulled off while tuned with h&s but the main focus here is 3-5 shift which now i have near where i want it. i have made many other adjustemts as you can tel by the nameAttachment 102764
    what changes have you made that made it closer to where you want it? I also see you're 3-5 adaptive times are set to shift pretty quick.

  9. #9
    i moved on and off 1-2 2-3 3-5, tv pressure was a bigger one that was why I was curious what part of that map was used given I have torque based off. when I moved up 5a to match 3a it seems to have made the biggest difference so far. shift and and lock up are set to my liking and build. my plan from here out is make 1-2 changes a day and keep driving it. i do have my adaptive on at least for now, the reason I started with an H&S file was simple they made the trans tunes for HP and starting off with a stock file would have been years to get it where I'm at now, I did buy an sct to log and found the spot in my 3-5 shift but I found having it set super high in there was too much and slowed the truck down when off going let go. tv was the best one then 5a so far. i have also set low rpm slip time to higher and likloey will in the adaptive as well. over all this drives well and isn't to bad low on throttle

    my original question was also answer by engineering this was the reply
    "From my understanding Torque based shifting has nothing to do with Transmission pressure. It's has to do with shift speed. Trans pressure comes from Torque and that then gets put into the slope/intercept models plus adders for the shifts."

  10. #10
    looks like i ramped up 5a in general not upshift, wow that was dumb of me

  11. #11
    What is your end goal?
    2008 J2 F-350 CCSB

  12. #12
    end goal well the one thing i can't seem to fully fix 3-5 shift not to flare, almost think I'm at the limit of the design vs torque being made in that range during the shift. i tired a few things and going to run today and see if any improvement

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy-ffc View Post
    end goal well the one thing i can't seem to fully fix 3-5 shift not to flare, almost think I'm at the limit of the design vs torque being made in that range during the shift. i tired a few things and going to run today and see if any improvement
    What are your trans mods and what is your torque and power level? Do you have a data log of the flare?

  14. #14
    bd diesel built trans, power wise probally 650hp but its a 5.9 common rail cummins in front. i had a few logs but must have delted them i can get more this week but what i feel i happening when the throttle is above 60% and the 3-5 shift happens and the 5is taking over the pressure required during that shift to grab a hold or torque transfer just can't grab it.
    i can get a log later this week but could be a limitaion of teh trans design vs torque being made

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy-ffc View Post
    bd diesel built trans, power wise probally 650hp but its a 5.9 common rail cummins in front. i had a few logs but must have delted them i can get more this week but what i feel i happening when the throttle is above 60% and the 3-5 shift happens and the 5is taking over the pressure required during that shift to grab a hold or torque transfer just can't grab it.
    i can get a log later this week but could be a limitaion of teh trans design vs torque being made
    So you no longer have torque input into the TCM since it's a cummins swap. This is where it gets complicated IMO and you have to know how to tune a transmission to get a good result, or at least understand there will be some sacrifice in shift clarity because of it. The 5r110 is something i'm not well versed in but i think PSM 6.4 is, i bet he can help you if he's willing and has the time.

  16. #16
    oh i get that from testing i have found my best results for driveablity is to have adapive on and torque based on with higher values in the ecm. should i fire him a private message on here?

    and thank you for the replies sir

  17. #17
    Attachment 103132 this is what i'm running now, works really well

  18. #18
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    anyone here have a trans tune file for the 5r110 that's cummins swapped?