Having issues with WOT

[theone61636]

Been SD VE tuning my TVS2300ed 5.3 and I'm running into an issue where if i go WOT, particularly from a low speed or in low (1st or 2nd) gear the engine doesn't respond. It doesn't quite bog...it just hangs there. If I ease into the throttle i can take it to redline with no issues and when im on the highway in high gear (5th or 6th) i can mash the throttle and the car responds as it should. Looking at the log, i don't seem to be losing boost and i don't have fluctuations in the boost that would indicate belt slip so im a bit lost. Attached are the tune and quick run file. Thanks!

Forged 5.3 LS
PRC Stage 2.5 5.3 Heads
LS9 Cam
1 7/8" headers
Spark plug gapped to .028
TVS2300 approx 15-18psi
8 Rib Conversion
Electric Water Pump


sd23.hplSDStarter2.9.hpt

[blindsquirrel]

Very first thing: According to GM TIS, this ECM came from an auto trans car, and the TCM is no longer present. This will cause Weird Shit to happen. You cannot turn an auto trans OS into a manual trans OS by just unplugging the TCM and changing the dropdown box to 'Manual'. You are going to be chasing ghosts until you get it flashed, using GM dealer-type tools and not the HPT interface, with a true real honest to God manual trans base calibration. And then start over. You should have done this before starting.

Now...
You are not in speed density.

Your log shows no DTCs. No MAF DTC = no SD.

DTCs P0101-103 need to be MIL on First Error, not no error reported for one and second error for the other two.

Your dynamic High RPM Enable/Disable settings are as if you want MAF-only, not MAF-never. Try 8000/7950 instead of 100/50.

You have a return-style regulator?

[theone61636]

Very first thing: According to GM TIS, this ECM came from an auto trans car, and the TCM is no longer present. This will cause Weird Shit to happen. You cannot turn an auto trans OS into a manual trans OS by just unplugging the TCM and changing the dropdown box to 'Manual'. You are going to be chasing ghosts until you get it flashed, using GM dealer-type tools and not the HPT interface, with a true real honest to God manual trans base calibration. And then start over. You should have done this before starting.

Now...
You are not in speed density.

Your log shows no DTCs. No MAF DTC = no SD.

DTCs P0101-103 need to be MIL on First Error, not no error reported for one and second error for the other two.

Your dynamic High RPM Enable/Disable settings are as if you want MAF-only, not MAF-never. Try 8000/7950 instead of 100/50.

You have a return-style regulator?

Wow, I did not know that about the auto vs manual trans issue and the requirement for using a GM Scan tool to change it. Forgive my ignorance but where do you find that information? I have another spare ECM I could use to start over but I don't know if that one is an auto or manual ECM either.

I do have a return-style regulator. As for not being in SD mode, I followed the SD Tuning guide that's posted on here. I guess I must've misread the the part about the MAF DTCs and dynamic airflow settings. I made the changes you recommended and will continue on with trying to tune the best i can until i can get the ECM reflashed. The good news is, the car drives great in all other respects.

[blindsquirrel]

After all that ranting, doing some more research, you may be OK on the auto/manual thing.

GTOs are weird in non-USA-GM ways. On this one, when I put in the VIN and select ECM, it gives an option to choose auto or manual. That's weird, it's usually auto-selected by what that VIN got built with. Choosing the manual option, the calIDs match what's in your file; the auto trans calIDs are different.

screenshot.11-09-2020 00.22.47.png

screenshot.11-09-2020 00.25.14.png

screenshot.11-09-2020 00.25.25.png

Why the programming tool used to change the OS matters: HPT only flashes 6 of the 8 segments, the two we aren't allowed to mess with are where the ETC lives, and there are parts of the ETC in an auto trans OS that don't work right when there's no TCM there to give feedback (like Abuse Mode). Flashing with real GM tools using GM files writes the whole thing with none of the old incompatible stuff left behind.

[blindsquirrel]

Anybody can look these up, just plug in a VIN and poke around: https://tis2web.service.gm.com/tis2web/

[blindsquirrel]

Ah... another thing. In the SD guide it mentions setting the Gas(Gear)/Gas(P/N) tables to flat 1.00... but your stock file had 10.00 in those tables. And a corresponding 0.1xx numbers in the Open Loop Gains tables, which are unchanged. 10 x 0.1 = 1. And 1 x 1 = 1. But 1 x 0.1 does not = 1.

For whatever reason some platforms used the 10x0.1 while others used 1x1, the end result is the same, but both sets of tables have to be changed if you want to mess with it. Either change the Gains tables to match, or change the Open Loop tables back to 10.00 flat.

[theone61636]

Ah... another thing. In the SD guide it mentions setting the Gas(Gear)/Gas(P/N) tables to flat 1.00... but your stock file had 10.00 in those tables. And a corresponding 0.1xx numbers in the Open Loop Gains tables, which are unchanged. 10 x 0.1 = 1. And 1 x 1 = 1. But 1 x 0.1 does not = 1.

For whatever reason some platforms used the 10x0.1 while others used 1x1, the end result is the same, but both sets of tables have to be changed if you want to mess with it. Either change the Gains tables to match, or change the Open Loop tables back to 10.00 flat.

Thanks for all the info. I originally left the tables you mentioned stock because in rev2 of the SD Tuning Guide it left that part out of it. I'm not sure if that was a purposeful omission or not. I decided to "1" out the tables per the original SD Guide and this morning during my drive I noticed the lower map/rpm sections of my VE were a little richer than normal but that was about it. I didn't try a WOT run to see if disabling the dynamic airflow was the cause of my issue but ill do some tests on the way home from work today and see if anything changed. Thanks again for all the help so far!

[Lakegoat]

If thats a GTO, those 2 tables should be 10.00 's----and you are going to need some bigger injectors if you are at 15# boost.

[blindsquirrel]

They can be either 10's or 1's as long as the other tables that reference them are also changed to match. There is no real reason to convert from one to the other but it works the same with either style as long as you change all of them.

Here are two repository files, both '06 E40 Trailblazer, one uses 10x0.1 the other is 1x1.

2006 Trailblazer 5.3 1GNET16M466118580 1212321883.hpt
2006 Trailblazer 6.0 1GNET13H762320408 84701868.hpt

[theone61636]

If thats a GTO, those 2 tables should be 10.00 's----and you are going to need some bigger injectors if you are at 15# boost.

I tried 10s and the car wouldn't start...flooded the engine. I plan on upgrading the injectors at some point but i havent even seen 60% duty cycle yet. Plus, i still have meth inj to add once the base tune is finished.

[theone61636]

Well, now that ACTUALLY have the MAF disabled (thanks to blindsquirrel) I've basically had to start my top end map from scratch. It was WAY lean. The lower cells that cover your normal, everyday, driving are practically perfect. The handful of cells in 88KPA+ range i was able to get, i needed to add almost 20% to the surrounding cells just to smooth the graph. Tomorrow starts another day of tuning so we'll see how it goes.

[blindsquirrel]

I tried 10s and the car wouldn't start...flooded the engine. I plan on upgrading the injectors at some point but i havent even seen 60% duty cycle yet. Plus, i still have meth inj to add once the base tune is finished.

Yes, because you created a mismatch between the Open Loop and Open Loop Gains tables, then went and adjusted the MAF & VE that sorta covered up the mismatch. It's like plugging in incorrect MAP sensor or injector data before adjusting MAF/VE and then going back and fixing the incorrect stuff - you have to undo the stuff that was compensating for the incorrect data.

Your file compared to a stock '06 file, only the tables in green have been altered:
screenshot.12-09-2020 07.05.20.png

Take a look at the current state of your MAF & VE compared to a stock file. MAF is a lot fatter, and VE is WAY WAY WAY skinnier. Why is that? It's almost as if that's a sign something hinky is going on...

Well, now that ACTUALLY have the MAF disabled (thanks to blindsquirrel) I've basically had to start my top end map from scratch. It was WAY lean. The lower cells that cover your normal, everyday, driving are practically perfect. The handful of cells in 88KPA+ range i was able to get, i needed to add almost 20% to the surrounding cells just to smooth the graph. Tomorrow starts another day of tuning so we'll see how it goes.

Fix the OL/OL Gains thing now, or you'll have to start over again (again).

[theone61636]

Well, I've made progress in some areas of the tune but still having this WOT issue. I found out the MAF was acting erratically and causing fluctuations in my AFRs. I dont know why but I isolated it as the cause. I have since gone back to SD tuning and Im just at a loss on this WOT issue. I feel like I've done everything. Ive adjusted the spark tables to extremely low and extremely high values and neither one seemed to provide a better or worse result.

About the only conclusion I have made is that the engine SEEMS to respond better with the PE enable set to higher values with 85kpa being the sweet spot. Under 100kpa the engine is perfect whether in PE or not. As soon a I go into boost it seems to just hang there and it sounds like the ignition is breaking up. The breaking up seems to be less severe with Im in higher gears (4th or higher) and slowly ease into low boost (5psi). The engine seems to want a leaner AFR while under boost but I just don't know where the line is. I've never experienced any spark knock while doing these tests, even when it was 90* out so i really have no idea what's going on.

Attached is the most recent tune and a log on that tune. It's not apparent on the log files that anything is wrong when i enter these conditions so im at a loss.SD5 (PE under boost is great - as soon as boost hit went super rich and ignition couldnt cut it).hplSD7.hpt

[theone61636]

Well, i finally figured out my issue. It ended up being dirty/faulty injectors. I ended up isolating the issue to something with fuel supply and after checking everything else i decided to pull the trigger on some FIC 660s since i needed to upgrade anyway. After install, all my issues disappeared. Tuning is now progressing quickly and I hope to be done with my VE tuning this week and then the MAF this weekend. After that, I'll schedule some dyno time to get my final WOT tuning done and see what kind of power im putting down.