09 ZR1 wot stumble E85 HELP

[bjlindell]

I just recently installed an aux pump to support E85 for my 2009 ZR1.
I have been running the car on 93 pump dialed in to the best of my ability, ran awesome on 93. Or at least i thought. Its just a simple bolt on car with ID 1050x's

I put the fresh first tank of E85 into it and starting to have all kinds of problems.
When i stab the throttle to gear match, it stumbles rich and chokes it self, not a smooth ramp up in rpm. i tried to reduce some of the higher KPA area evap and impact factor transients for alcohol only and has been starting to help.
The BIG problem i am having is when i go WOT. the car stumbles real bad for a split second, like it cuts power completely, then full power comes back in abruptly and will continue a strong pull the rest of the rpm range. its just the initial stab of the pedal to where this is happening. it appears to be a S()(# ton of fuel that chokes the car judging by the snapshot below.
Other than that, torque is there and feels great driving around and running through the gears light and moderate throttle.

I feel like a noob again on tuning this thing. I feel like ive checked my ID1050X injector data many times and it seems to match up with what ID provides me.
But when i go to E85, all seems out of wack like its injector data or something?

As you can see in the snapshot below as i tip into WOT inj pulswidth will be fine until it hits this point of 36ms!! then come back to a sane level of around 14ms (where it should be) shortly after. thats the point to where i feel it stumble badly and pop back into power.

I thought maybe it was because of my FSCM tuning and affecting something with the secondary pump coming on. but i unplugged it and put the FSCM back to factory setting and still occuring.
Attached is the current tune file
any constructive help would be great. thanks!
BandV ZR1WORKING 2020 CURRENT BEST E85 fscm Working.hpt

wot stumble with high inj ms.PNG

[bjlindell]

Think its because i have dynamic airflow predicted coefficients 0'd out that it could be doing this? ill try and see if that has an affect on the issue. if not im totally out of ideas. I originally got this car with an efilive tune on it because it had the lingenfelter 710 hp package on it. that was my original read file and ive been modifying that ever since with HPTuners.
think i need to flash the factory file in it with an MPVI in case the efilive file could be corrupting something that i cant see?
Just some thoughts

[RobZL1]

I'm not in a spot to check out the tune file, but based on your screenshot, your fuel pressure is dropping like a rock and the injectors are trying to compensate, then the pressure springs back up to where it should be, but then starts falling off again through the rest of the pull.

[07GTS]

try it with your eoit no so delayed the ethanol as it uses so much more may not be firing properly and u are very delayed boundary 605 and ect 60 even on big cams i dont go that far, at least see what its like with the boundary at 550 up top and slope as u have back to 520 if it helps u know whats going on (i was boundary 560 and ect 80 worked well) , but yea u wont last long on ethanol with 1000cc injectors on 15psi boost i had to bump my base pressure upto 70psi just for headroom (mechanical referenced reg)

[bjlindell]

try it with your eoit no so delayed the ethanol as it uses so much more may not be firing properly and u are very delayed boundary 605 and ect 60 even on big cams i dont go that far, at least see what its like with the boundary at 550 up top and slope as u have back to 520 if it helps u know whats going on (i was boundary 560 and ect 80 worked well) , but yea u wont last long on ethanol with 1000cc injectors on 15psi boost i had to bump my base pressure upto 70psi just for headroom (mechanical referenced reg)

Ill try it with the boundary at 550 up top and slope it back down to 520 along with the ect numbers and see where its happy. i haven't had a chance to play with injection timing yet on Ethanol with the new PW numbers and insert that into the inj timing calc. good point and thanks for the feedback.

as for the stumble as i go WOT. it seems it was my prediction coefficients all being 0'd. The only coefficient i left 0 was the "corrected" table and all seems great and back to a stout running setup.

[07GTS]

if ur using the maf u will need all those prediction coeff its only if u go SD u can zero them out, i didnt even look there yet, also the offset v inj temp shouldnt be zeroed it will cause lean hot starts, u also have IAT, MAP and FLOW injector multipliers populated so if ur dialing in fueling all those will be adjusting it so can be best to set those all to 1.0 and then dial in fuel and only populate again if u need to for a map/temp issue

[bjlindell]

if ur using the maf u will need all those prediction coeff its only if u go SD u can zero them out, i didnt even look there yet, also the offset v inj temp shouldnt be zeroed it will cause lean hot starts, u also have IAT, MAP and FLOW injector multipliers populated so if ur dialing in fueling all those will be adjusting it so can be best to set those all to 1.0 and then dial in fuel and only populate again if u need to for a map/temp issue

I appreciate the advice. I didnt think about the IAT, MAP and FLow injector mult being populated from the stock injectors. Ill set those all as 1 and make adjustments accordingly.
I set the offset v inj temp back to the stock settings. since i roughly have twice the size of the factory injectors do i reduce the factory numbers by 50%? i thought that use to be a rule of thumb to start.
I probably need a fresh tank of 93 and retune fueling, 02's and transients again and after that is ironed out, throw some e85 in and see how that is all impacted.
ill hopefully try out the new setting tonight and see how this affects it currently and post up results.

[07GTS]

yea halve the ITT offset as a base to start from, u could prob save some injector duty by going to PE 1.220 for ethanol up top its little but may help just keep and eye on pressure if it cant keep up fuel flow

[bjlindell]

yea halve the ITT offset as a base to start from, u could prob save some injector duty by going to PE 1.220 for ethanol up top its little but may help just keep and eye on pressure if it cant keep up fuel flow

Makes sense, i can trim it down some. i was running lean (12.2:1 afr) in that wot area. i didnt want to touch my maf curve to adjust since it was right on target for 93 pump. so i was trying to adjust my PE some to see if that would help.
Now since i need to retune fueling with the new adjustments ill probably set those numbers lower.

making the injection timing change along with the other inj offset adjustments has seemed to help get this thing in the right direction!
i made some pulls last night, the best i could with cold concrete (60*F) and pulled off the best 60-130mph time ever for the car. the best with 93 previously was 6.1 60-130. last night i did a dragy pull with E85 and it did a 5.68 60-130 and didnt hit WOT until about 75mph into the pull to maintain traction in 3rd.

fuel pressure isnt dropping with the second pump now, but running into 75% duty cycle with 84psi of fuel pressure. if im wanting to do ported heads and cam along with the OD pulley, ill need 1300's for sure. you're right on the money with need to go larger.

The thing i cant seem to affect now is the Rich WOT tip in. when i first get into WOT it goes rich, like 9.9 or 10:1 then slowly gets to commanded. i know i probably need to switch everything over to lambda...

any advice on the rich wot tip in portion? attached is updated tune as well

BandV ZR1WORKING 2020 CURRENT BEST E85 fscm planning to run.hpt

rich wot tip in.PNG

[07GTS]

changing those inj multipliers to 1.0 and retuning fuel may help the difference from petrol to ethanol as it should stay close as long as inj data is right also, try the transient impact for the tip in it should only affect throttle movements not steady fueling

[bjlindell]

changing those inj multipliers to 1.0 and retuning fuel may help the difference from petrol to ethanol as it should stay close as long as inj data is right also, try the transient impact for the tip in it should only affect throttle movements not steady fueling

This has all been great info and i appreciate the help! ill adjust the transient impact some more and see what works best.

[regorih]

What?s your power enrichment set ? I would set it back to 1. On e85 I bet your emptying the rails too fast on tip in and it?s tacking a second for the fuel system to respond and fill the rails back up

[bjlindell]

What?s your power enrichment set ? I would set it back to 1. On e85 I bet your emptying the rails too fast on tip in and it?s tacking a second for the fuel system to respond and fill the rails back up

Power enrichment for Alcohol EQ is set at 1.195 up to 4500rpms then enrichens to 1.291 from 5500 and on.
Enrichment ramp in is 1.0.
ill prob adjust that so it doesnt ramp in so hard and see how that affects the rich ramp in like youre mentioning. maybe ill start out with .75 since it was already set at 1 and see how that affects it

[ds15zl1]

Power enrichment for Alcohol EQ is set at 1.195 up to 4500rpms then enrichens to 1.291 from 5500 and on.
Enrichment ramp in is 1.0.
ill prob adjust that so it doesnt ramp in so hard and see how that affects the rich ramp in like youre mentioning. maybe ill start out with .75 since it was already set at 1 and see how that affects it

Did you ever get the rich tip in corrected? I have the same problem and was thinking it was due to sudden rush of fuel pressure from the dsx pump.