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Thread: Seems HPT is trying to pass the buck. Stock tune will not run in SD enhanced VATS

  1. #1

    Seems HPT is trying to pass the buck. Stock tune will not run in SD enhanced VATS

    I had an issue where I attempt to convert a 100% stock tune (Which runs the car fine) to SD enhanced (RTT). It will not start unless VATS is disabled in this custom OS tune. Literally all i do is go into the SD tune that won't start, flip VATS off and it runs perfect. Clearly an issue w/ VATS. This is a 100% stock tune which runs fine in non enhanced AND in SD enhanced when VATS is disabled. Advised them the Inj. pulse width clearly shows VATS is the likely culprit and disabling VATS proves that theory. Their response is that they don't provide tuning assistance and that since they have 10k customers who use it they can wash their hands of the issue. They also advised me to come here for tuning help which isn't what I'm looking or asking for in the least. I just want to know why I have to disable VATS to get this custom OS to run. So with that said, does anyone have any recommendations on how I can proceed aside from disabling VATS to use SD ehanced?

    Their response (How this cannot be a VATS issue is beyond me?):


    this appears to be a tuning issue and not related to vats as tens of thousands of customers have used this SD custom operating systems without issue through the years.
    And it gets better (Let me reiterate this is a 100% stock tune converted to 1bar SD enhanced which starts fine when I just turn off VATS).


    vats likely bypasses alot of the issues in the tune, but its 100% a tuning issue from what we can tell.
    Does anyone know anything that VATS would bypass on my 100% stock base tune? This is all news to me.

    SD 1BAR enhanced
    VATS off-start/run
    VATS on-no start, no injector pulse width

    ​​​​​​​


    Dave
    Last edited by TTVert; 09-22-2020 at 10:02 AM.

  2. #2
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Write-entire with a new OS generates a new security key that has to be learned by the BCM. It's not rocket science.

  3. #3
    Nowhere in the docs anywhere does it mention this. In fact their docs just says write entire. I did confirm that the security key is the same for both tunes FWIW. Furthermore, I did not have to do this when I flashed the entire MAF enhanced. Would you mind advising me how i may be able to resolve this security key issue then? If this is in fact the issue why would HPT not say this rather blame a stock tune?

    os info.jpg

    Dave
    Last edited by TTVert; 09-22-2020 at 10:14 AM.

  4. #4
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    VATS 'keywords' are not the same as the keys shown in Calibration Details. Security relearn procedures for whatever vehicle you have there will be in your service manual.

  5. #5
    Man I hope you are right and it's just a matter of a relearn. Going to go flash and try this. With that said I'll be highly disappointed in HPT if this is in fact the issue as they blame my stock tune. Them telling me that the MAF has to be failed for it to start also bothers me as I know that's not factual. Lots of misinformation from HPT support email.

    Dave

  6. #6
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Well, keep in mind too that all of this is outside what the factory is able to account for. If you need certainty you need to stop hacking your car.

  7. #7
    Thank you for the info blindsquirrel, I did a VATS relearn and it worked. I am very disappointed that HPT's instant and constant reaction was to blame my stock tune when in reality it is something they should be very well aware of (VATS relearn sometimes being required w/ their custom OSes). You instantly led me down the right path.
    I've been using HPT since they came out and were competing w/ LS1 edit and I'm fortunately I never had to rely on their support as it appears it would have not gone well. based on this William Henn guy @ HPT today. We're fortunate to have people in these forums that seem to know more about their software than the employees. Being in IT I'm honestly used to that though.

    I advised him I'm also getting a VATS DTC which clearly says there is an issue between the OS and VATS but he continued to blame the tune. Despite the fact I had told him at least 3 times that the second I either disable VATS or load the same tune w/o the custom OS its fine. So frustrating when these support people are so closed minded.

    if you are getting a DTC for vats then you probably have a vats issue that is unrelated to our product, but yes I am sticking to my guns and telling you that you did NOT disable the maf in ANY of the files you sent.
    Dave
    Last edited by TTVert; 09-22-2020 at 11:35 AM.

  8. #8
    HP Tuners Support
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    why not post your files for all to see, I reviewed your files and you didn't disable maf so I advised you to disable maf and report back.

    Never in my 14 years here have I heard of anyone having to relearn vats or disable vats in order to use any of our custom operating systems.

    Additionally the infolog you sent showed no DTC's being reported so theres no reason I would suspect a vats related issue.
    Last edited by Bill@HPTuners; 09-22-2020 at 01:12 PM.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  9. #9
    HP Tuners Support
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    BTW relearning vats typically only needs to be done when you REPLACE an ecm with one that wasn't originally in the vehicle hence the reason we wouldn't have advised that in your case https://www.hptuners.com/help/vcm_ed...elink_vats.htm
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  10. #10
    Bill, as per those linked instruction "Relink VATS" is not even an option I see in my VCM editor under flash. I'm on 4.8.7. When flashing the bin I have: entire, calibration, VIN/TUNELOCK/VATS, Do not write. I would assume entire writes them all?


    Open VCM Editor and select "Relink VATS" from the "Flash" menu. The Relink VATS form will appear.
    s.jpg

    I did the long ass process of relinking VATS key on for 10 mins, off for 30 sec, 3 times.

    Dave

  11. #11
    HP Tuners Support
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTVert View Post
    Bill, as per those linked instruction "Relink VATS" is not even an option I see in my VCM editor under flash. I'm on 4.8.7. When flashing the bin I have: entire, calibration, VIN/TUNELOCK/VATS, Do not write. I would assume entire writes them all?



    s.jpg

    I did the long ass process of relinking VATS key on for 10 mins, off for 30 sec, 3 times.

    Dave
    Likely got moved to the scanner when we moved to 3.0, that portion of the help file hasn't been updated since 2008 or so. When you said you relearned vats I assumed you meant through our product.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  12. #12
    negative did it the way all of the corvette people do it. It is in the scanner now under vehicle | controls and special functions | System | Relink VATS however it did not work. I was hoping to find an expedited way to do it via TECH2 but haven't looked yet. I did do a VIN/TUNELOCK/VATS flash and it didn't help either.
    Last edited by TTVert; 09-22-2020 at 01:22 PM.

  13. #13
    HP Tuners Support
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    I will reiterate unless you swapped to an ECM that wasn't originally in the vehicle vats relearn should not be necessary.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  14. #14
    "Should not" clearly does not apply in this situation. That is what i have to do right now when i move to an SD enhanced OS on this vehicle. As stated if I don't do the relearn it won't start, i get a security light and the P1631 DTC (P1631 Theft Deterrent System Password Incorrect). In order for it to start after i "flash entire" the first time for the SD enhanced I have to do a VATS relearn which takes 30+ mins to run through the process. For obvious reasons I'm not too privy on doing much more testing on this. For the time being I'll stick w/ the MAF tune until/if this gets worked out.

    Dave
    Last edited by TTVert; 09-22-2020 at 03:40 PM.

  15. #15
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Tech2/Tech2Win has a 10 minute relearn function, it's the same as only doing the first of the 3 in the non-Tech2 relearn. You do have to be careful to follow the instructions exactly, i.e. turn ign OFF before trying to crank after relearn completes, etc.

  16. #16
    Mind telling me where you found that? I went through the BCM as well as nearly every other setting and didn't find it.

    Dave

  17. #17
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Year/make/model?

  18. #18
    2000 Corvette (Y body).

  19. #19
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Tech 2 to Techline Terminal

    Important: Performing this procedure may cause a DTC P1630 to set. If a DTC P1630 sets, turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds, then turn ON the ignition. If the DTC P1630 does not clear, Refer to Powertrain On Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check in Engine Controls.

    Using a Tech 2, select New BCM Setup and program the BCM with the correct RPO code configuration.
    Enter the Service Programming System (SPS) using a Tech 2.
    Enter the vehicle information.
    Choose the Request Info soft key on the Tech 2.
    Select Done.
    Follow the instructions on the Vehicle Set-up screen.
    Disconnect the Tech 2 from the vehicle.
    Connect the Tech 2 to the Techline terminal.
    At the Techline terminal select Service Programming System (SPS) and select terminal to Tech 2 programming method.
    Select Done.
    Follow the instructions on the remaining screens.
    Select the Vehicle Theft Re-learn option.
    Select Program at the summary screen. The terminal will download information to the Tech 2.
    Return the Tech 2 to the vehicle.
    Connect the Tech 2 to Diagnostic Link Connector (DLC).
    Select Service Programming from the Tech 2 main menu.
    Answer the prompts regarding the model year and vehicle type.
    Press the Theft Re-learn soft key on the Tech 2.
    Follow the instructions on the remaining screens.
    Attempt to start the engine. If the engine does not start, Refer to the Powertrain On Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check in Engine Controls.

  20. #20
    Thanks.

    Dave