First post, tuner gave me a maf tune instead of a speed density tune, Trying to edit

[05silgto]

So, long story short, about 2 years ago I paid for a sd tune and now that I have hptuners, I can see I got ripped off. It's just a normal maf tune.
I emailed him, but in the meantime, I want to learn as much about this as I can and try to edit up my tune to work for speed density in case my tuner never makes things right. I don't plan to upload a new tune to my ECU anytime soon, I want to learn as much as I can first and make sure I'm sure of myself first.
First off, this is for a 2005 gto, E40. It's a flex fuel setup with a gm flex fuel sensor plugged up. 1000cc fuel injector connection injectors. Stock maf with iat sensor, procharger with 10psi, bone stock ls2 engine, stainless works long tube headers, 3 inch magnaflow exhaust with a unnecessary 2.5 inch adapter between the headers and exhaust. Boost referenced fpr.

Also, I know that when my tuner originally added spark advance in the flex fuel table, it didn't make a difference in power, then he applied the spark advance to the high octane table and it gained 50hp. Looks like there is a bug in some OS which doesn't correctly apply the flex spark. I updated my OS file when I converted to 2 bar so I'm not sure if that might fix the bug or not.
Also, I've read from hptuners
"2.5 Bar MAP - Speed Density (LS2 V8 - E40 ECM)

This enhancement contains the following features:

2.5 bar max MAP sensor support (calibration capability for GM 0-5V linear MAP sensors)
New Boost VE table from 105 kPa to 255 kPa (2.5 bar or 22.5 psi boost)
Retains stock VE table resolution in non-boost regions
Better than 5 kPa resolution in boost regions (105 kPa - 255 kPa)
New MAP referenced "Boost Enrich" table in 5 kPa increments
New Boost Enrich MAP threshold
Speed Density mode only" Does this mean once I activate this I can't use my maf? In other words, do I have to only rely on a sd tune and can't switch back to maf simply by unfailing the maf?

Anyway, I attached my original shop tune, a supposedly stock tune and the tune file that I'm working on currently. I've added values to the VE tables and made edits elsewhere.
I haven't set up the maf to fail yet. Also, looks like he scaled my maf sensor by about 49%. I'm guessing he did that since you can't enter 100lb injectors in the tune. So, I scaled my ve table by 49% as well.
Let me know what you think of my first attempt, I know I'm missing a lot of stuff, figured I start with VE.
gto (Fake) speed density tune.hpt Shop tune
gto speed density tune edited applied.hpt My edited tune file
2005 stock Pontiac GTO E40 - 12596734.hpt Stock tune

[Lakegoat]

The first thing is to find the fuel injector data and post it. The VAC table does not look correct for a return boost referenced fuel system.
If you are tuning the VE table, you should fail the MAF. P0101,102,103--Mil on first error, uncheck the boxes if you don't want to see the light. Airflow--Dynamic HiRPM Disable 8000, Reenable 7900. MAF 0/1. Should also put in open loop--stft and ltft off.
Power Enrich--Min Map, 85. Boost enrich 1.27---not 1.12
What MAP sensor do you have. You mention 2.5 bar, but have 2 bar data in the tune--gotta be correct.
Do you still have cats? Test is still enabled.
On larger than 63# injectors, normally double stoich, half ifr, half ivt terms(afr). Your IFR is halved but not the rest. IVT Term has been modified--I guess to make the larger injectors work. Stock is 7.92 across the table. 1/2 would be 3.96.
If you want a blended tune, a maf tune and a SD tune, tune the maf and VE and then make three tunes and you can load whichever you want. Make sure you are not running out of maf HZ.
Sounds like your alcohol sensor is not hooked up correctly or is not working. With it enabled, the Flex spark table should work. If you run E all the time, it doesn't matter, but if you run 91 or 93, that is a crap load of timing at wot.
Hope you have a wideband!!!

[05silgto]

The first thing is to find the fuel injector data and post it. The VAC table does not look correct for a return boost referenced fuel system.
If you are tuning the VE table, you should fail the MAF. P0101,102,103--Mil on first error, uncheck the boxes if you don't want to see the light. Airflow--Dynamic HiRPM Disable 8000, Reenable 7900. MAF 0/1. Should also put in open loop--stft and ltft off.
Power Enrich--Min Map, 85. Boost enrich 1.27---not 1.12
What MAP sensor do you have. You mention 2.5 bar, but have 2 bar data in the tune--gotta be correct.
Do you still have cats? Test is still enabled.
On larger than 63# injectors, normally double stoich, half ifr, half ivt terms(afr). Your IFR is halved but not the rest. IVT Term has been modified--I guess to make the larger injectors work. Stock is 7.92 across the table. 1/2 would be 3.96.
If you want a blended tune, a maf tune and a SD tune, tune the maf and VE and then make three tunes and you can load whichever you want. Make sure you are not running out of maf HZ.
Sounds like your alcohol sensor is not hooked up correctly or is not working. With it enabled, the Flex spark table should work. If you run E all the time, it doesn't matter, but if you run 91 or 93, that is a crap load of timing at wot.
Hope you have a wideband!!!

Thanks for the reply, I have seen some of your posts before and was hoping you would chime in. I have a wideband, flex fuel sensor is hooked up correctly, I have used 93 and e85 plenty of times over the course of 2 years. Mostly e85 though, I avoid getting on it with 93, thank God after seeing this tune. I don't have cats. I have the cobalt 2 bar sensor, should already be configured from the tuner, but yeah.
Mostly everything in that tune was done by the tuner for his maf tune(or fake sd tune) I'm still learning so bear with me here. How would you suguest I go about calculating base values for the ve table?

[05silgto]

I'll get started on making the changes you mentioned, should I scale back the maf while I'm at it?
As for the spark advance flex fuel table, I found this quote elsewhere from another thread, looks like I'm not the only one who experienced this.

FWIW, I had a 06 Vette that we put a D1SC, flex fuel sensor, E85, etc, etc.

When adding the additional timing for the E85 in the "Flex Fuel spark table" it would show the timing in the log but I believe it wasn't actually adding it.

The reason I say this is if I put the added timing in the high octane table I would see an increase in power, if I add it in the flex fuel spark table(and take it out of the high octane table" I'd loose a bunch of power.

Was I adding it in the wrong table?

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...uel-E85-Tuning Post #17

[Lakegoat]

FUEL INJECTOR DATA !
The Primary VE table looks almost stock. It's OK as a starting point. Do you have your scanner configured so you can do a drive around--NOT wot ? And monitor your STFT's and wideband so you can modify the VE table. Maf has to be off, DFCO off, LTFT's off. Without any scan info, don't guess which way to change stuff. It has run that way for a while, so first is to get all the data correct or you will be doing this over. Be sure and log in Lambda---EQ error and Boost EQ Error

[Lakegoat]

This won't help much but I smoothed out the Primary and boost ve tables so there is not such a jump between them.

[05silgto]

Thanks for all your help. I need to contact the injector company to get the data. I'm a little strapped on time right now, I Have a exam tomorrow morning.
I've been doing a lot of maintenance on my car recently so I'll have to put everything back together before going for a ride, not much left to do. I haven't configured the scanner yet, or even gotten into that yet. I have a way to connect my wideband to a laptop. I'll post an update once I got everything set up. Thanks again.

[05silgto]

Okay, I think for the most part I got everything set. Set, IVT terms to 3.96 like you said but I couldn't figure out why the tuner put those previous numbers. I copied the high octane spark table from a Magnuson supercharger tune and put the differences between my spark table and the Magnuson in the flex fuel table excluding negative numbers which I then subtracted from the high octane table. This way with e85, I'll be running my current spark which I know works well. For low octane, I put the stock values. Not quite sure if I need to modify Multi vs map.

gto speed density tune First-stage.hpt

Apparently, legally, I'm not allowed to post injector data, I've looked over everything and it all looks correct.

[Lakegoat]

Look at your Fuel--Offset--Offset vs volts vs VAC chart. If you are running a return, boost referenced regulator, that table should be different.
Change Fuel--Flex fuel--Sensor--Default percentage to 30%, not 70. That might be why the flex timing was not kicking in.
Mult vs map is ok.
Smooth out that Boost VE table. Open it, click on 3D view and click smooth a few times. Then go back and check the 105 column and make sure it is the same in both primary and boost charts. Smooth again. You can highlight the whole boost table except column 105 to smooth, so it doesn't change the 105 column. The Primary and boost tables are a starting point. I don't even know if it will run with them so go slow and don't break anything.
I don't think you need + 20 degrees timing in those lower airmass areas.

[Lakegoat]

Here it is, you will have to open the file fic file again.

[05silgto]

Here it is, you will have to open the file fic file again.

Thanks for the help, I pasted that 0 column to every column like you said. I was looking into the different methods of scaling and since my tuner scaled down my maf by 48% and since I scaled it back and did the stoich afr method, shouldn't I change the location of my spark in my spark tables if I want to keep it how it was?

[Lakegoat]

I would leave the spark table alone. It is based on cyl airmass, rpm and torque. It doesn/t know what is going on with the fuel . When you get the fuel (VE) tuned, it should be ok. IF anything, cut back on the Flex timing until you get the boost ve table corrected. I will get you a screenshot of my channels in a few.

[Lakegoat]

Post your tune or a screenshot of the offset table--please

[05silgto]

offset.png
Here's my table, I'm not sure if it's needed but I'm currently adjusting my VE Maximum table to my highest values in my VE Boost table for each rpm. I might start tuning the car today or tomorrow hopefully and see how it responds, I smoothed out my boost VE table but I know it's still not ideal. I don't plan on hitting boost for a while and I'll definitely redo the entire boost VE table once I get some logs from the main VE table.

[Lakegoat]

I'm not sure what you mean by the adjusting ve max table and the rest of that sentence. vac table looks like fic posted --good.

[05silgto]

I'm not sure what you mean by the adjusting ve max table and the rest of that sentence. vac table looks like fic posted --good.

vemax.png
This is what I mean, I already adjusted it.

As for the spark table, I see when people scale the ve by 50%, they say to change the location of your spark by 50%. I understand our Ve isn't scaled and in my previous tune my tuner scaled my maf and left VE alone. But under Dynamic Airflow, rpm disable, it says this "Dynamic Airflow High RPM Disable: Above this RPM use filtered MAF airmass for airmass prediction calculations."
So, If the tuner scaled my maf by 48% and I wanted the same spark as before, I wouldn't change the location of my spark advance values by 48%?

[05silgto]

gto speed density tune First-stagesafespark.hpt
Here's my current file, I multiplied the flex spark by .4 to reduce it for now.

[Lakegoat]

Don't change your spark table. You have too many things going on before you start tuning. Spark tables are best tuned on a dyno so you can see the torque curve and hp.
I have to plead ignorance on the max ve table. I have never edited that table. Post up a separate question on here about that table and we can both learn something.

[05silgto]

Thanks, I just reduced the spark while I tune the VE like you said. I just need to multiply by 2.5 to get it back to where it was. Hopefully I'll get a chance to start tuning tomorrow, a little bit of rain put me behind schedule. I saw you already posted a question about the max VE table, thank you for that.
Once I get everything dialed in perfect I might see if I can rent a dyno nearby or something for the spark tables. A performance shop recently just opened literally a block away from me, I wonder if I can somehow get on their good side lol.

[Lakegoat]

Here is what Sultan posted: (highest point in the VE NA or boost table and give it a 5% increase).
What are you going to multiply by 2.5?? Whatever it is, that's a LOT. If that is the VE table, you need to let your wideband tell you how much to change it.