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Thread: DQ250 6-speed DSG Knowledgebase

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dertobi View Post
    your problem is in the ECM tune, not the TCU, reported torque has to be correct, otherwise it's really a PITA to get Clutch pressures up.
    Right, you?re absolutely correct. However, this is an issue with all Cobb tunes, from speaking with many people who tune dsg, APR and others used to use this same strategy. HPtuners is a last ditch effort to get some control over the dsg tune. I really do not want to go without the accessport, and after speaking with Stratified, they were able to work around this torque reporting issue on HPtuners so I am confident this can work. Otherwise, my tuner is willing to redo the ecu tune through HPtuners if need be. Cobb was literally zero help, the person I spoke to literally had not even the simplest understanding of what the torque reporting issue was, and kept telling me they don?t have dsg tuning for the mk6 so there?s nothing that could be done about it.
    I?ve been researching and learning about this issue for well over a year now so I have some avenues I can go through to get the situation under control. This just may be the only pathway that allows me to keep my accessport.
    The car has too many ?complications? to use any off the shelf tune at this point, and no off the shelf would allow me to make the power the car makes right now on this turbo anyway.

  2. #42
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    How many logging parameters should be present? I have 12 of them. Seems like I?m missing some.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by dertobi View Post
    you will need a professional tuning software to change that in the binary file, and of course you have to find the corresponding values in binary first.
    otherwise you may open a HPT support ticket and ask if they can add these parameters in HPT.
    3rd option: you could use User defined parameters, but therefore you also would need the binary and have to know the adresses of the values in the file, here I could help maybe, if you tell me your software number i could see if I have the file and tell you the adresses or make an xdf to add it.
    I just installed DQ250 from R32 in a 2.0 TSI and everything seems to work fine. I will drive it for a couple of days with stock tune and then I will start to tune the TCU

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitegti12 View Post
    How many logging parameters should be present? I have 12 of them. Seems like I?m missing some.
    Here is what I have for my DQ250

    Capture.PNG
    Previous
    2007 Mustang GT w/ Whipple supercharger
    2013 Focus ST
    2016 Volkswagen GTI

    Current
    2019 Golf R

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by TewSlo View Post
    Here is a DQ250 Tune you can copy or learn from, the choice is yours.

    Edit : Beautiful technical write-up on your site, I can appreciate your efforts!
    To follow up on the approach of setting each Transmission Load row RPM to be the same for all four rows, that's what I have done as well. After looking at some of the different Engine Torq and Trans Torq outputs I didn't find any that were not linearly correlated with the APP. There does not seem to be any benefit to having the multiple TQ rows for looking up the shift RPM.

    I've been setting all the rows equal and haven't encountered any occurrence where the transmission shifting was unusual.

    I saw a shift schedule table for the 7-speed DSG and it just uses APP and a Speed (mph) to determine the shift point. For the 6 speed this table seems to have been unnecessarily complicated.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by MyGolfMK7 View Post
    To follow up on the approach of setting each Transmission Load row RPM to be the same for all four rows, that's what I have done as well. After looking at some of the different Engine Torq and Trans Torq outputs I didn't find any that were not linearly correlated with the APP. There does not seem to be any benefit to having the multiple TQ rows for looking up the shift RPM.

    I've been setting all the rows equal and haven't encountered any occurrence where the transmission shifting was unusual.

    I saw a shift schedule table for the 7-speed DSG and it just uses APP and a Speed (mph) to determine the shift point. For the 6 speed this table seems to have been unnecessarily complicated.
    I've noticed changing the shift points in these higher rows affects shifts when on an incline. I don't have any datalogs to support this but my theory is that these torque values are multiplied when the car is climbing a hill. Up preference if you want that behavior or not.
    Previous
    2007 Mustang GT w/ Whipple supercharger
    2013 Focus ST
    2016 Volkswagen GTI

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    2019 Golf R

  7. #47
    Has anyone been able to get higher clutch pressures just using HP Tuners?

    Like 15-18 BAR?

  8. #48
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    Have not logged mine in awhile, but no issues raising torque limiters and getting higher clamp pressures.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by yrkz06 View Post
    Has anyone been able to get higher clutch pressures just using HP Tuners?

    Like 15-18 BAR?
    I am trying to do this for over 5 months with no results.
    I read TCU files from cars that have rised clutch pressures and just copy the pressure parameters and torque limiters with no results.
    I think that HPT don't give all of the parameters of the file ,as the gear ratios for example and some other that affect the clutch pressures.
    Has anyone have an idea of how to "open the horizon" for these??

  10. #50
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    0D9 or 02E?

    Post up some files and get the discussion going.

    I've submitted multiple tickets to HPT about getting tables added, generally they have been very helpful. If you have the missing table info, even better. With user defined parameters, you can define any of your own tables and edit any part of the calibration.
    Last edited by aaronc7; 07-05-2021 at 11:10 AM.

  11. #51
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    dsg dq250 fxx ORI file Audi A3 quattro.hptdsg dq250 fxx ori file +clutch pressure test V1.hptdsg dq250 increased clutch pressure.hpt


    The first one is original file from A3 2.0tquattro
    The second is a try with clutch pressure rise with no result with HPT software
    and the third one is a previous file of the same tcu,same car,but another software editor, that rised clutch pressure up to 18.5bar

    I believe that some very important maps are missing.
    I purchased user defined parameters and tryied to understand the principle of the tuner pro,but all that I figured is that you must know the exact adress of the map to make the definition,but thats very difficult.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mactune View Post
    dsg dq250 fxx ORI file Audi A3 quattro.hptdsg dq250 fxx ori file +clutch pressure test V1.hptdsg dq250 increased clutch pressure.hpt


    The first one is original file from A3 2.0tquattro
    The second is a try with clutch pressure rise with no result with HPT software
    and the third one is a previous file of the same tcu,same car,but another software editor, that rised clutch pressure up to 18.5bar

    I believe that some very important maps are missing.
    I purchased user defined parameters and tryied to understand the principle of the tuner pro,but all that I figured is that you must know the exact adress of the map to make the definition,but thats very difficult.
    Looked at the files, surprised the V1 map didnt make a difference, so like you say some things may be missing.

    Do you have any datalogs of this ? Any .bin files or any other data? I have only worked 0D9 DQ250 but I suspect they are pretty similar.

  13. #53
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    Attachment 111487
    Attachment 111491


    log from that specific file!
    This is my friend's A3 quattro

    The weird is that I have golf mk6 with fxx too and with the same changes the clutch pressure rises depending the engine torque correctly.dsg dq250 fxx shift schedule correction+clutch pressure.hptdsg mk6 test.CSV

  14. #54
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    Really weird we try a lot?s of thing and we are not able to go up 13 bar

    Did someone was able to go over 13 bar? (18bar)

    All the map with the shift point work and the launch to but not the pressure

    (Golf r mk7)

    Thanks

  15. #55
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    How much power you making? Post your file if you'd like me to take a look

  16. #56
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    i'm running a gtx 3076r at 43 psi and 15 timing for now with build engine ...

    i'm currently with maestro but the dsg tune With ED is not great so i wanted to do my own dsg tune but the all the change i try doesn't work

    sorry for my bad english it's not my first language


    this is my stock dsg file
    dom stock dsg tune.hpt

    thanks for your time

  17. #57
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    I understand just fine, no worries!

    Can you post your current modified file too? I think I can help you, we have the same DSG box code. Basically raise/max out required torque limiters, and then you can increase line pressure a little.

    Did you ever log clamp pressure with ED DSG tune?

    Another issue here is the ED Boss ECU files calibrate the torque vs airmass (mg/stk) relationship such that it skews it.... for example if 1000 mg/stk is actually 400NM, the boss file will say 400NM is 1400 mg/stk. I'm making up numbers here but the idea is the same. The problem here is that the reported ECU torque value is lower than actual, and this under reported torque value gets fed into TCU for initial clamping pressure.

    I had a guy who was getting some clutch slip right at peak torque/boost onset. I changed his ECU tune airmass vs torque tables only and the issue was basically fixed-- no changes to TCU.

    Not to say that there isn't room for improvement in the DSG tune here-- but the ECU tune definitely plays a factor too--it's worth mentioning.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by domdom12 View Post
    i'm running a gtx 3076r at 43 psi and 15 timing for now with build engine ...

    i'm currently with maestro but the dsg tune With ED is not great so i wanted to do my own dsg tune but the all the change i try doesn't work

    sorry for my bad english it's not my first language


    this is my stock dsg file
    dom stock dsg tune.hpt

    thanks for your time
    Try this if you want to do some tests!
    This is working on mine with pte6262 with progressive rising pressure depending on the desired torque request from the ECU.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronc7 View Post
    I understand just fine, no worries!

    Can you post your current modified file too? I think I can help you, we have the same DSG box code. Basically raise/max out required torque limiters, and then you can increase line pressure a little.

    Did you ever log clamp pressure with ED DSG tune?

    Another issue here is the ED Boss ECU files calibrate the torque vs airmass (mg/stk) relationship such that it skews it.... for example if 1000 mg/stk is actually 400NM, the boss file will say 400NM is 1400 mg/stk. I'm making up numbers here but the idea is the same. The problem here is that the reported ECU torque value is lower than actual, and this under reported torque value gets fed into TCU for initial clamping pressure.

    I had a guy who was getting some clutch slip right at peak torque/boost onset. I changed his ECU tune airmass vs torque tables only and the issue was basically fixed-- no changes to TCU.

    Not to say that there isn't room for improvement in the DSG tune here-- but the ECU tune definitely plays a factor too--it's worth mentioning.
    Thanks Aaronc7,

    The first thing that I did was to raise the streamed torque by the ecu, it was low with the ED calibration. It is now doing around 530nm instead of the based 420ish

    I could not really log the dsg with the eurodyne and since the vagcom was not fast enough I could not get an accurate measure, but it was around 15bar with the ed file.

    As for the HP tuner dsg file, the first thing done was to raise the torque limiter and then I raised the actuator max miliamps to 2000ma. No matter what, I never saw on a log more then 1207ma on any of my actuator using hp tuner loger.

    I have also try to change the axis on Max Clutch A and B to have the tcu think it need more milliamps to reach its 25bar the map has.

    So far, no luck, can't see past 1200ma and 12.5-13bar of pressure.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mactune View Post
    Try this if you want to do some tests!
    This is working on mine with pte6262 with progressive rising pressure depending on the desired torque request from the ECU.
    Thanks for your example Mactune, I did modified the same maps that you did when I compare your file to mine.

    I think I did all correct, it just does not seem to ever go above 1200ma and above 13bar of pressure.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by domdom12 View Post


    Thanks for your example Mactune, I did modified the same maps that you did when I compare your file to mine.

    I think I did all correct, it just does not seem to ever go above 1200ma and above 13bar of pressure.
    unfortunately I believe that depends on the software version of each unit,
    In addition I have noticed that you can rise clutch pressure with several ways,BUT HPtuners software don't unlock all of the maps that are inside the code.
    I have in my hands 2 cars with same engine set up and same mechatronic software (fxx-AL 2011year) with different tuning strategy on the TCU software that are both have rised clutch pressures...
    I will post these files ASAP