2014 LSA Swap Issues - Is it the Tune?

[jettob]

Hello HP Tuner Forum - I'm in the final stages of the 2014 LSA swap and I've run into a brick wall with troubleshooting. This is a stock ECU that was recently programmed by a reputable local tuner to remove VATS, update for Brian Tooley Stage 3 Cam, and ID1050XDS injectors. The car won't start, it turns over, confirmed fuel pressure at the fuel rails, power all the way to the injector/coil harness, but no spark or fuel. I performed the basics and there is 13.8V throughout the electrical.

I'm brand new to tuning, but I've been reading a bunch on the forums and of course reviewing youtube for tutorials. It's throwing the following codes:

0x7E8: P0118 - Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit High (Permanent)
0x7E8: P023A - Charge Air Cooler Coolant Pump Control Circuit/Open (SES, Pending, Current, Old, Permanent, History)
0x7E8: P057C - Brake Pedal Position Sensor Circuit Low (Pending, Current, Old, History)
0x7E8: P0606 - ECM / PCM Processor (SES, Pending, Current, Permanent, History)
0x7E8: P0607 - Control Module Performance (Pending, History)

My question to the forum is, would any of the above codes prevent a start? It will turnover/crank fine, but we haven't been able to get it to fire at all. And forgive in advance all, I've been at this for 2 weeks after work every night and on the weekends. I'm stuck and hoping the knowledge of this forum may be able to assist.

Tune is attached for reference.

[5FDP]

The PCM codes could do it. It could be a door stop or it might be okay still.

[Jon S.]

I take it this is an LSA conversion project into a 1966 Impala ?

The ECM programming, Throttle Body, and Accelerator Pedal (APP) must all be mutually compatible (matched) - or problems will arise.

In a conversion, a P0606 DTC will often be the result of using mismatched components, or trying to program a different OS into an ECM using tuning software (this is a job for GM software only).

[jettob]

Thanks Jon S. and yes, this is a conversion project of a 2014 LSA into a 66 Impala. The ECM, Throttle Body, and APP are all from the original LSA engine. Most of the sensors are stock from the original engine as well, only ones are camshaft and crank sensors. Crank and Cam were replaced with new AC delco as part of my troubleshooting.

I've spent the past couple of weeks troubleshooting, with no luck. I've poured a lot of money and effort into this project and to be at this stage is very discouraging. I spend every night working in the garage after work, trying to figure this out and contacting as many resources as possible.

I've doublechecked everything from a physical standpoint. I have 13+V to the injector/coil harness, doublechecked the grounds today (using resistance on a meter), and I even bumped up fuel pressure to 50PSI. No spark (I checked all plugs) and there is no fuel smell or residue on the plugs. Plugs, wires, injectors, pumps, are all brand new. Motor turns over fine without issue. Constant power to harness (without interruption).

[Jon S.]

The wiring harness ... what is it ?

A reworked used OEM harness ?

New harness from an aftermarket supplier ?

[Jon S.]

The wiring harness could be the problem ... I will wait to hear your response on that topic.

I took a quick look at the tune that you posted - it is from a 2014 CTS-V manual transmission vehicle. Hopefully you did not pay much for that tune - because you did not get much of a conversion tune.

The Fuel Injector setup is not correct.

Are you using a FPCM ? The ECM is setup for this. If you are running standard electric fuel pump, and an inline fuel pressure regulator - then the ECM is not setup for this.

One thing that could be linked to the P0606 and P0607 DTCs being set, is that DTC P062F has been disabled - this diagnostic may need to run - so that the P0606 and P0607 diagnostics run correctly.

Your issue could be many, many things - ranging from a simple ground wire connection, to the overall fuel delivery system, and / or programming.

[jettob]

Thanks Jon S., very much appreciate your input and assistance.

The harness is a brand-new PSI for the LSA (manual trans). The original trans was a 6L90 and I upgraded to a built 4l80E from Hughes with a US Shift 4 TCM. I have not installed the TCM yet, was focusing on the engine ECM. Fuel system is VaporWorx PWM, dual Aeromotive 350's to an 8AN to the stock fuel rail. VarporWorx PWM is connected to the MAP sensor and references boost to increase PSI.

The tuner is a good guy and he knows his stuff. He's been very responsive and supportive. He did apply the ID1050 configurations based on the data from their website, so I'm not sure if there are issues with the application of the data.

If you can see glaring issues with the tune, I'm willing to compensate you for your time. Again,I appreciate the input and support. Let me know if you or if you know someone that can fully review the tune for discrepancies.

[Jon S.]

Thank you for the further details - these were very helpful.

I am certain that your tuner is a nice person - however the tune that you posted is not conversion ready - not even close.

Some things to consider ....

I took a more in depth look at your E67 ECM tune. It is programmed as a 2014 CTS-V LSA 6.2L 6L90. In your conversion (using a 4L80 with a standalone TCM), the E67 should be programmed as a manual transmission.

Your tuner made some basic changes in an attempt to make it manual transmission compatible - but missed a great deal of what needs to be changed - easier to just program it as a manual transmission car.

The OEM FPCM was not properly programmed out. The Alternator was not configured for conversion use - when the engine does finally start, the Alternator likely will not charge, or will not charge immediately.

The VaporWorx PWM controller tapping into the MAP Sensor wiring could be what is causing some (or all) of your DTCs.

PSI positions themselves in the marketplace as an "economy" brand wiring harness manufacturer. Sometimes their wiring harnesses are OK, other times they are pinned incorrectly.

My two cents ... you have too many variables in play.

I would disconnect the VaporWorks system entirely. I would set the static fuel pressure somewhere between 58 PSI and 65 PSI - using a regulator, and temporarily trigger the fuel pump via an On / Off switch, such that it is operating any time that you are trying to start the engine.

[goodwrenchdave]

Recheck your powers and grounds at module here are the schematics for that ecm :

cadillac ecm.pngthrottle control.png

Do you have a crank rpm showing (counting)?

[jettob]

Thank you goodwrench Dave. I doublechecked everything and voltage and grounds are good. But what the heck, I'll do it again.

I do have RPM coming through the scanner. around 110-125 when I crank it over. Here is a log file (attached) - just a couple secs of crank.20-10-27 20-03-53.hpl

[goodwrenchdave]

listen, I'm no tuner (wish I could learn this trade- but that is a whole other conversation)... just an old GM tech. But whats upwith the 152 mph? it registers that speed all the time.... and the speed limit 2 is at 80 mph (speed at which fuel disabled as per description---- maybe an experienced tuner can look into this?

[blindsquirrel]

Auto trans ECM OS + no TCM = VSS weirdness. It's freaking out, man.

[Jon S.]

Hey I have a 5.3 that has been modified to a 6.2 supercharged lsa but I am having problems with it running rich is there anyway someone can point me in the right direction

This is a completely different topic - start your own thread.

Very poor manners to "thread jack" another forum member.

[afraptor22]

I'd start a new thread and provide some more details. What ECM are you using to control it, what base OS did you start with, what fuel system are you using....tons of variables to consider before someone can give you any help. The number one response is probably going to be....get a wideband O2 sensor and log the data with the scanner.

[05Doug]

This is a completely different topic - start your own thread.

Very poor manners to "thread jack" another forum member.

I am completely a newbie an I do apologize so sorry I was trying to get in touch with you but didn't know how to contact you directly

[05Doug]

I'd start a new thread and provide some more details. What ECM are you using to control it, what base OS did you start with, what fuel system are you using....tons of variables to consider before someone can give you any help. The number one response is probably going to be....get a wideband O2 sensor and log the data with the scanner.

Ok will start a new thread an put down more info using a 5.3 ecm 93 pump gas thank you for you help

[afraptor22]

Full disclosure I am the "tuner" who did the original modification. I do not claim to know everything, but I would like to add some results in case someone else runs into this problem in the future.

BLUF, the harness from PSI shipped with a CAM position plug that was able to be plugged directly into the CAM sensor, or the extension....if the extension is used it would have worked, but without the extension you HAVE to reverse pins A and C. PSI also shipped a harness pinned out for a 09+ Vortec MAF but sold the OP an LS3 card MAF. This immediately fried the IAT portion of the MAF and the signal wire is incorrect...re-pinned the harness and swapped to a new sensor and the IAT is happy. Something to note, an LSA from a Cadillac uses the Vortec MAF and different IAT tables than an LSA from a ZL1 Camaro, so in this case a manual ZL1 base tune would be the best option. I don't have a licensed ZL1 manual tune, but I do have a GMPP LS9 tune/ECM so that is what I used to check the manual/auto no start theory.

I did try a lot of Jon S.'s suggestions, thank you, but in the end none of that was the problem. I plugged in a spare E67 that I had with the GMPP LS9 crate engine tune on it that I knew worked fine, it had the FPCM enabled in the tune but was not using it...runs fine on the LS9 and in the LSA, ECM doesn't care. Once we got the cam issue figured out I swapped back to the original E67 just to see if having an auto base tune would start. It does still say 158mph but runs fine. There may be some drivability issues like that but the OP is running a stand alone transmission controller so I think it will be fine. I will see if there is a way to run a VSS output from the transmission controller to the ECM and see if that makes it happy and keep the auto base tune.

[Jon S.]

Great job on the diagnostics - with a PSI harness you get what you paid for (enough said).

There were so many variable in play - my technique is to eliminate all variables until there is a successful engine start - then introduce one additional variable at a time, until you hit a no start condition, or until everything is working together.

You will never get the 2014 CTS-V 6L90 base E67 to recognize a pulsed VSS input - it is looking for a CanBus message from the TCM. It would easiest to flash the E67 ECM with a 2014 CTS-V manual calibration - the autos and manuals use the same OS (12656245) - so you would only need to perform a calibration only flash (not a write entire).

[jettob]

Big thanks to Jon s. for your engagement and support on this topic. Very much appreciated sir and hopefully I can pass this along some today, as you did for me. A huge thanks to the tuner afraptor22 for all of his assistance, support, and perseverance to work through the issues. I could not be happier with the service and all of the effort he put it for me as a customer. Stand up guy and a great person.

Looking forward to working out the kinks and getting this thing on the road. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions through this journey and hopefully I can contribute to forum once I learn enough. Thanks again to everyone.