Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 38

Thread: Nothing but problems with my NGC3

  1. #1

    Nothing but problems with my NGC3

    At this point I don't know if this is a problem with my computer (Two computers) or my MPVI2 or something.

    When I try to connect to my truck (2005 Ram 2500 5.7L) to do a read I have to manually select the controller as "NGC3 Dodge", and I only have access to 23 "Basic PIDs", things like Knock Retard and Inj. Pulse Width are not available as channels in the channel selector.

    When running "VCM Suite Info" the log only shows my computer reporting as "ECM: 10, VPW" and not as an NGC3.

    So we (Me and HPT support) figured the ECU has probably had a tuner on it before and it's been locked, they suggested getting it flashed back to stock.

    I take it in to the dealer to have them flash it back to stock, and first of all I don't think they understand what I was talking about to begin with, but secondly they go through all of this whole spiel and I basically had to twist an arm to get them to do it.

    So they come back hours later telling me that they hooked up two different scanners and couldn't get info from the computer so they can't put it back to stock. The work order however says that they can only update, not go back?!?!

    So anyway I discuss with him swapping the ECU.....and so I find and order an exact replacement on eBay, finally get it today and get it hooked up to a bench harness to make sure it'll work before I spend even more god damn money just trying to tune my truck.

    get it all hooked up to the bench harness, and try to do a read, only to be met with the exact same scenario.
    computer not reporting as NGC3, same 23 basic PIDs, no more accessible than the ECU on my truck.

    What are the odds I ended up buying a second ECU that was previously tuned and locked out?! the truck it came from was bone stock.

    So what's going on here?? Why do I own the only Dodge that doesn't even have access to the channels needed to do a proper data log?
    And no I can't just go to "Add Channel" because the channels do not exist, the PIDs do not exist.

    needless to say I'm pretty miffed, I've spent $800(CAD. Pro features) on a tuner I really can't do much with, and spent even more money at the dealer trying to get mine to work and even more money buying another ECU just to be able to TRY and tune my truck.


    What am I supposed to do here?? I'm not selling my truck, I'll get nothing for it.

  2. #2
    Tuner in Training HemiX2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    City of Trees
    Posts
    48
    I've been messing with the PCM/TCM on my 06 5.7 Jeep Grand Cherokee....probably a similar set up to yours with the 545RFE transmission. I've made mine into a 6 speed by using a 2008 PCM/TCM. My point to all this is that you may want to pick a used PCM/TCM out of another 05 Ram or maybe even go with an NGC4 PCM/TCM out of a later model. I picked up two PCM/TCM's for about $200 and have been tinkering off and on since July. I have the first used one set up just about the way I want and will soon install the second one and do some "experimenting", mostly with transmission settings.....shift schedules, pressure settings and torque settings for the up shifts and also converter lock settings. All of mine, including the stock NGC3 one, indicate they are as advertised.....NGC3 or NGC4. On mine, when going from the NGC3 to the NGC4, I did lose some PID's on my DashHawk that I had with the NGC3 and KR was one of them. I too have not been able to figure out how to get these, what I consider important, PID's back, as they don't show anywhere.....on the DashHawk, on my high quality Autel Scanner or on the HPT.

    A couple questions......are you able to do ANY tuning at all, either engine or transmission? If so, what all can you do? Can you read fuel trims at all?
    Two (now Three) Hemi's, an 05 5.7 Magnum, an 06 300C SRT8 and an 06 5.7 Jeep Grand Cherokee, all somewhat modded. The 5.7's are modded almost the same with advanced (10* for Maggie and 6* for the Jeep) FRI Sidewinder cams/6.1 valve trains, ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SC, DS and HP Tuners, headers, cat. backs, underdrive pulleys, SOS coils, catch cans, 90 mm throttle bodies, plus a bunch of cosmetic stuff. 06 300C SRT8, Comp. Cammed, HPT tuned, Foose wheels, 85 mm TB.

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Detroit, MI
    Posts
    1,320
    Do you have something else plugged into the OBD port? You may want to follow the wires as far as you can to see if something else is wired up, messing with the signal. Aside from that, could just be the HPT doesn't support the OS in the ECU, since that's the problems you will have.. basic PIDs. As far as getting another identical ECU... if the OS isnt supported, then it also may not work.

    When I first got my MPVI 1 in 2012ish, it woudlnt work on my 2010 Camaro, even though they said it would. Hours of support, sending the MPVI back in for a replacement, etc didnt work... nothing worked. Come to find out they just didn't support the OS, so they added support, BAM.. all fixed. Seeing as HPT isnt seeing the ECU as an NGC3 just says it doesn't know what it is (not supported). Tell them to either support it, or give a full refund.

    The dealer has no idea what they are doing, is all. They can only update, as they should be doing, which sounds like they did.

    Then, try someone else's HEMI, see if it scans more PID's. Could be the MPVI2, I suppose. I happen to edit and flash, scan my buddies NGC3 no problems, but this is with the MPVI 1.
    Last edited by 10_SS; 11-04-2020 at 11:43 AM.
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU - Spark only). MS3X running complete RTT fuel control (wideband).
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

  4. #4
    I've got a second computer from the exact same truck, it has the same problem, there's nothing else on the OBD port because it's connected in my living room using a bench harness.

    I sent Eric another email about this after I found I'm having the same problem and this is the response, which still doesn't make any sense to me.

    "Did you have someone set this up for your vehicle? The correct vin and OS? You will need to do this first then everything should report correctly and this can be done by using a dodge witech or a J2534 tool."

    This doesn't explain why the new ECU would still be having the same problem, and why would I believe that once it's setup for my VIN and in my truck it would be any different?
    I don't feel like wasting another $150 just to be able to say "yeah that didn't work either" to support.

    I'm not sure if I can get a refund, I bought this through dirty diesel customs using paybright.

    I really feel like this is getting out of hand.
    Last edited by Killavolt; 11-06-2020 at 02:54 PM.

  5. #5
    I also can't use a 2008 ECU on my 2005. anything 06+ is CANBUS, my truck isn't CAN.

    Also, I can tune stuff yes, I have access to things in the Editor, but the problem is missing PIDs in Scanner. I don't even have knock retard available. I've seen what's available on other NGC3's and I'm falling way short. Even Eric at support agrees.
    Last edited by Killavolt; 11-07-2020 at 02:57 PM.

  6. #6
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    30
    How confident are you that you have made your bench harness correctly? Perhaps you overlooked a wire that needs to be connected?

  7. #7
    100% confident.

    I'm really getting nowhere with this either, support is running around in circles and telling me shit they've already told me and they're treating me like I'm a god damn idiot at this point.

    IF my trucks ECU isn't reporting properly, and I hookup my bench harness to the new one and it's doing the same thing as my truck, then what reason do I have to believe that having it programmed to my truck and having it installed is going to do anything differently?
    I'm not about to spend $200+ more to find out I still can't use my $833 tuner.

    So lets look at this, all CAD.
    $833 for tuner (pro features)
    $158 for dealer to look at me like I'm a dumbass and tell me they can't even get information from the computer, with an invoice that says "can't go back can only update".....so wtf there???? the dealer doesn't even understand what I'm telling them when I say I want to go back to stock firmware. They either can't or won't and aren't giving me any details.
    $177 for eBay ECU, lucky to find the same part # from the same truck.

    Why the hell am I spending all this money for "troubleshooting" ??

  8. #8
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    815
    See if HP Tuners will allow you to send that spare PCM to them to figure it out.
    Also, I replied to your post in the Mopar HP Tuners facebook group.
    Last edited by spoolboy; 11-11-2020 at 09:25 AM.
    If in doubt, multiply everything by 1.1.

  9. #9
    This is really getting nowhere.

    At one point during my emails, basically mid conversation, I was greeted with an email "thanks for contacting support, please provide an infolog", so I think I was passed off to someone else because I find I'm having to explain the problem again.

    First I was told the ECU was probably tuned, not one single mention of OS or anything, and now after going through a ton of crap, repeating myself, and asking questions that are just plain and simply being ignored, I don't know wtf I'm supposed to do here.
    They say there's nothing they can do, it's an OS compatibility problem now, and am told it needs a newer operating system?

    But when I was at the dealer they said they couldn't access it??
    So I'm kind of thinking the dealership is full of shit and didn't really do anything, so I think I'm going to call them back and call them out on it, because their invoice says different than what the service advisor/technician told me, and I have a second computer behaving the same way so I really suspect the dealership was blowing big smoke up my ass.


    The thing that really gets me here is that my old 2009 flashpaq can do nothing else except change the tire size. That's it, that's all it's good for.....but my shiny new expensive MPVI2 can't even do that much with either ECU.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    1,772
    All the dealership can do is flash the latest revision of the calibration for your vehicle. There are tricks to flash older revisions with their flash tools though. But all they do is flash the latest revision of the calibration for your vehicle.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    All the dealership can do is flash the latest revision of the calibration for your vehicle. There are tricks to flash older revisions with their flash tools though. But all they do is flash the latest revision of the calibration for your vehicle.
    Right I get that, but I don't think they even did anything.

    When I went in there the first time I went in with the mindset that the ECU had previously been tuned, and I explained in detail what (we) thought had happened, and I told him very clearly I just wanted it put back to stock firmware/software/whatever term they want to use... I said firmware.
    I went into this because it's what I was basically told to do by HPT support, after remoting into my computer and seeing what was happening with my MPVI2.

    So when they give my truck back (I also got the airbag recall done) he sits there with me and explains how they tried two different scanners and couldn't get information from the computer and that there is an update but they can't do anything......so I sigh and say ok thanks.

    The invoice, however, says "Unable to go back to factory setting programming, can only update to new software level, not able to go backwards" so there's a contradiction in what I was told and what they say they can do.

    Now this is where it starts to get good, both dealer and HPT says to try a new computer, dealer says good luck bud, hard to find, need the exact same truck. So I had one in my hands about 2 weeks later.
    I decide not to "waste" more money having the dealer install the ECU, program it etc and build a bench harness so I can check it out at home.
    I get the ECU all hooked up and long story short, everything is the same as with the one in my truck now. I can't access any more features, no gear/tire wizard etc.

    throughout all this I was speaking with Eric and the last email from him told me to have the dealer program it and it would work.....in responding back to our chain of emails I'm greeted with the old "thanks for contacting support, please provide an infolog....."
    confused, I do this, and say "I realize there are DTC's, it's because it's hooked up on a bench harness and not in the truck yet" (Remember, this entire chain/conversation is about why my MPVI2 isn't reading the ECU properly....this entire debacle is to get to the problem of why I can't access stuff)
    I receive an email back ....

    "So all the dtc's would be normal as you're not in the vehicle and it's looking for this info. If you are going to use scanner then install the ECM and test it in the vehicle."

    ..........


    So anyway, more emails ensue as I explain the situation repeatedly to this new "Eric", and at this point I'm quite frustrated if I'm being honest...wouldn't you be?, and I just come back with "Is it an operating system compatibility issue or something?"

    the next email is telling me that both computers are running an older operating system and there's not much they can do because it needs to have a newer operating system.

    So that's currently where I'm at and I've been trying to find out if they can tell me what version of OS I need so I can at least tell the dealer that I need it updated to at least version X before I go back and try this again.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    1,772
    I would try a different dealership and ask for a calibration update. Sounds like the one you tried doesn?t know what they are doing and not all of them do.

  13. #13
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    815
    Also, the older J1850 stuff is not supported by the current Witech. Have to find an old DRBIII or some sort of emulator. There's a good chance the dealership no longer has a DRBIII.

    2005 is ancient technology in 2020 apparently.
    If in doubt, multiply everything by 1.1.

  14. #14
    HPT support is under the impression that someone with a WiTech can solve all my problems. They know it's a 2005.....

    I don't even know who would have a DRB3, and not only are they expensive to find, apparently it's quite difficult to find a properly setup/working unit.

    Is it possible at all for me to get a hold of a DR3 emulator somehow?

  15. #15
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    704
    Quote Originally Posted by Killavolt View Post
    HPT support is under the impression that someone with a WiTech can solve all my problems. They know it's a 2005.....

    I don't even know who would have a DRB3, and not only are they expensive to find, apparently it's quite difficult to find a properly setup/working unit.

    Is it possible at all for me to get a hold of a DR3 emulator somehow?
    I would bet that if you can find a tech with a J2534 flash tool (several Snap-On, Autel, and other versions out there), they could get your updated calibration flashed to your truck for you. You shouldn't be limited to only a DRB3. Granted, DRB3s are the most useful tool for the early to mid-2000 PCMs. But for simple calibration flashing, any J2534 flash tool should do (aside from Wtech, as has already been stated).

  16. #16
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    704
    Quote Originally Posted by Killavolt View Post
    HPT support is under the impression that someone with a WiTech can solve all my problems. They know it's a 2005.....

    I don't even know who would have a DRB3, and not only are they expensive to find, apparently it's quite difficult to find a properly setup/working unit.

    Is it possible at all for me to get a hold of a DR3 emulator somehow?
    What is the OS ID number of the current calibration in your PCM?

  17. #17
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    28
    Hello,
    as BOOSTJUNKY said a J2534 Path True compatible with Chrysler J2534 Flash Application and the right calibration flash file (post your actual Calibration ID or HPT stock read to check for update) will be enough to flash you PCM.
    TAKE CARE.
    Regards.
    ;o)
    Last edited by joecosta; 11-17-2020 at 01:51 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by B00STJUNKY View Post
    What is the OS ID number of the current calibration in your PCM?
    Not sure how I find out what the OS ID number is?
    This is what's in the infolog for the PCM that's currently in my truck


    Protocol Info: SAE J2178, J1962: VPW

    ECM: 10, VPW
    VIN: 3D7KS28D65G735354 - 2005 Dodge Ram Pickup 2500, 5.7 L, V8
    Calibration IDs: 56028970AH
    Calibration VNs: 49FE5858
    Basic PIDs: 23
    Scanning Methods: ISO 15031-5 Mode 0x01 Functional

    TCM: 18, VPW - NGC3X, Dodge
    OS: 56028980AEA
    Calibration IDs: 56028980AEA
    Calibration VNs: 07483202
    Basic PIDs: 3
    Controller Type ID By OS: 21020
    Diagnostic Requirements: None
    Scanning Methods:
    Last edited by Killavolt; 11-17-2020 at 08:12 AM.

  19. #19
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    815
    According to the J2534 flash availability document, you already have the latest flash, so there is nothing the dealer can "upgrade" it to.

    56028970.jpg

    And apparently my posts count is the mark of the devil.
    If in doubt, multiply everything by 1.1.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by spoolboy View Post
    According to the J2534 flash availability document, you already have the latest flash, so there is nothing the dealer can "upgrade" it to.

    56028970.jpg

    And apparently my posts count is the mark of the devil.
    So technically, support is still giving me the runaround because they're telling me it's an older OS and needs to be updated.

    What about this one, the PCM I picked up from the wreckers.

    Protocol Info: SAE J2178, J1962: VPW

    ECM: 10, VPW
    VIN: 3D7KS28D55G815678 - 2005 Dodge Ram Pickup 2500, 5.7 L, V8
    Calibration IDs: 56028970AG
    Calibration VNs: 47AACE49
    Basic PIDs: 23
    Scanning Methods: ISO 15031-5 Mode 0x01 Functional

    TCM: 18, VPW - NGC3X, Dodge
    OS: 56028980AEA
    Calibration IDs: 56028980AEA
    Basic PIDs: 3
    Controller Type ID By OS: 21020
    Diagnostic Requirements: None
    Scanning Methods: