Nick Williams scalar values for 103mm LSx vs 102mm (not LTx)

[GrannySShifting]

What have you all been using for values? I have a G8 that acts really wierd. First banged my head on wall with a POS TPIS 102mm where the blade was crooked as hell and didnt seal worth a damn. Stuck a 103mm NW on it and certainly seals better but scalar values are non sense. I can use a stock scalar (4700-5100) or typical NW 102mm value of 7280 or max it out at 8190 and idle airflow values are not doing much different, read way out of wack (3 lb/min Desired Idle Air or something like that when it should be 1.3-1.4ish). Just put a scalar of 3000 (wayyyy smaller than stock) and it all seems to act normal with Idle Airflow Values falling in line??? It throws a P0606 ECM/PCM code now occasionally though

[Lakegoat]

I use 7300 for a 102. So, If I put on a 103, I would use 7500 and readjust the maf and ve tables and whatever else needed adjustment.

[GrannySShifting]

I use 7300 for a 102. So, If I put on a 103, I would use 7500 and readjust the maf and ve tables and whatever else needed adjustment.

The problem is that doesnt work, even remotely on this car. Like I said, its happy with values of @3000 being used

[Lakegoat]

Well, you asked
Post the tune

[GrannySShifting]

3000 scalar, only way data looks happy (except for P0606 coding)

[Lakegoat]

The only things that I see are Desoot is on and the IVT Terms need to be halved since it is a double stoich SD tune. I thought it would be a bad map sensor, but it reads correct on the log. Any chance the injectors have been swapped for something else? I know that I have seen this tune somewhere else---can't remenber.

[GrannySShifting]

that stuff in tune was originally done by well known guy in Florida I think. None of those things have anything to do with the way the throttle body is acting however?

[Ben Charles]

If fueling isn’t right airflow with the TB won’t be... what is engine TQ at idle?

[sevinn]

Leave scalar stock for the 103s

[GrannySShifting]

Ben even after getting fuel trims within couple percent, it still acts the same way, wants a super low scalar value.

Leave scalar stock for the 103s

Tried that, not even close to happy like that. This one is dead on it seems with 2850 as a value?? Integral and derivative idle corrects around 0

[Ben Charles]

I honestly don’t know the reasoning, but sometimes I’ve had to move the scaler a lot to work properly!

I talked to Nick one day on an 07 vette I was doing and could not get it to work properly.. he told me to change the scaler to something way less then stock and worked perfect and base running airflow numbers were realistic!

Now there are a ton of aftermarket Throttle bodies, so the problem is even worse.. now a days I give it about 10-15 min before I tell customers they TB is trash (usually put a stock one on and works perfect as a test that’s it’s the TB causing the problem)

Most large then stock TBs work fine, but there are many out there that a tune won’t ever fix

[GrannySShifting]

Just to reiterate that I wasn't crazy, later found guy ran into this and Nick Williams told him cars with earlier silver blade TB should use a scalar in 3000 area like I came up with

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ttle-body.html

[Ben Charles]

Nice update… yea I’ve ran into similair problems and just had the customer get a new TB.. ashamed people spend $700 on a TB and doesn’t work….

[sgod1100]

I spoked with Nick when I put on his 103 on my ctsv and he said leave the scalar STOCK. I initially increased it due to everyone with the 102 did that, but when I did that the throttle felt VERY boggy

[Ben Charles]

I spoked with Nick when I put on his 103 on my ctsv and he said leave the scalar STOCK. I initially increased it due to everyone with the 102 did that, but when I did that the throttle felt VERY boggy

Correct… since the 103mm has been out, stock scaler has even used on most e38s
E40, p59 still needs some manipulation

[Alvin]

Just to reiterate that I wasn't crazy, later found guy ran into this and Nick Williams told him cars with earlier silver blade TB should use a scalar in 3000 area like I came up with

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ttle-body.html

Nick personally told me the same thing. It's when your replacing a silver blade throttle body you will use a value lower than stock. Gold is a different story.

[Sub8]

Nick personally told me the same thing. It's when your replacing a silver blade throttle body you will use a value lower than stock. Gold is a different story.

Is the blade colour linked to a different OS somehow otherwise that makes no sense whatsoever.

I run a 103 on my 09 z06 with a calculated area scalar of 7405. Appears to work as expected?

[Alvin]

Is the blade colour linked to a different OS somehow otherwise that makes no sense whatsoever.

I run a 103 on my 09 z06 with a calculated area scalar of 7405. Appears to work as expected?

The two throttle bodies (gold vs silver) have slightly different "throats". The profile is done in a way to give the throttle a bell curve like a cable driven linkage. The two throttle bodies aren't interchangeable like people think. One will sometimes work for another but in most cases they will throw throttle codes a month later.

[Sub8]

The two throttle bodies (gold vs silver) have slightly different "throats". The profile is done in a way to give the throttle a bell curve like a cable driven linkage. The two throttle bodies aren't interchangeable like people think. One will sometimes work for another but in most cases they will throw throttle codes a month later.

So the associated calibrations must be different as well?

[GrannySShifting]

The two throttle bodies (gold vs silver) have slightly different "throats". The profile is done in a way to give the throttle a bell curve like a cable driven linkage. The two throttle bodies aren't interchangeable like people think. One will sometimes work for another but in most cases they will throw throttle codes a month later.

When did they switch from silver to gold? All LS3 engine stuff had gold blades right? Chevy SSs? Were all Pontiac G8 GXP/6.0s silver or gold?