Speed Density 6.2 / A8 Swap Combo with VVT 3 Cam

[cb817]

Engine/Trans Details:

6.2 with TSP VVT 3 Cam +10% fuel lobe
Katech ported TB on top of a LS7 carb intake
Longtubes
running a SD tune

8L90 with Circle D converter

Long Story Short:

I took my swap vehicle to get tuned and it did not go so well. I learned real quick not every tuner understands the LT platform, but that's my mistake for not doing more research before taking my setup to get tuned.

Hoping to get some insight from you guys about minor adjustments i can do to to get this thing a bit better for the moment while i find who will finalize the tune and get it right.

It runs and drives (in the parking lot / down the block) but i feel it runs real rich and up shifts really drag in the higher MPH range. Also any heavy throttle just seems to make a lot of noise but doesn't put it to the ground

im new to this and have made some adjustments to get the shifting better but im a total noob. ive been comparing my current tune to ones i see on the forum to make tweaks here and there.

any advice is appreciated.

Current Tune.hpt

[Ben Charles]

Sounds like a fun setup, if I get a moment I’ll check it out

[cb817]

Sounds like a fun setup, if I get a moment I’ll check it out

Thanks Ben, I appreciate that

[SultanHassanMasTuning]

i recommend you posting a datalog to help

[cb817]

i recommend you posting a datalog to help

Here is a log I pulled
Data Log1.hpl

[wesley.huddleson1]

Based on my extremely limited knowledge that I have gained over the past week it looks like the driver demand table is not requesting enough torque at lower speed or RPM depending on what your OS wants. You can see that you pedal is requesting about double what you are getting when you are trying to hard accelerate. I would make sure that your tune is adjusted for your tire size and gear ratio before going too far in adjusting the Driver demand tables though because that can change your axle torque numbers in the driver demand tables as well.

[cb817]

Based on my extremely limited knowledge that I have gained over the past week it looks like the driver demand table is not requesting enough torque at lower speed or RPM depending on what your OS wants. You can see that you pedal is requesting about double what you are getting when you are trying to hard accelerate. I would make sure that your tune is adjusted for your tire size and gear ratio before going too far in adjusting the Driver demand tables though because that can change your axle torque numbers in the driver demand tables as well.

I used the wizard to set my tire and rear gear. anything else to look for?

[cb817]

I was able to get the shifting a decent bit better but still have other issues in the tune. here is the current tune and a data log
Current Tune - trans adjustments and tcc ramp.hpt
data log 3.hpl

[wesley.huddleson1]

That should suffice. Have you double checked the speed against GPS?

[wesley.huddleson1]

I noticed that you are same computers and OS I am on my 5.3 and there seems to me a key component missing. I am not seeing a MAF sensor input which is used in the OS to try to calculate load. What sensor are you using?

[cb817]

I noticed that you are same computers and OS I am on my 5.3 and there seems to me a key component missing. I am not seeing a MAF sensor input which is used in the OS to try to calculate load. What sensor are you using?

I don't have a MAF I physically cannot run one do to my setup. That's why its suppose to be speed density

[wesley.huddleson1]

I don't have a MAF I physically cannot run one do to my setup. That's why its suppose to be speed density

I see now. I would take a look at this guys videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmzpQBnTJ9w
He does a lot of good stuff. Taking a look at these tables can probably help you out a bit.

[cb817]

I see now. I would take a look at this guys videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmzpQBnTJ9w
He does a lot of good stuff. Taking a look at these tables can probably help you out a bit.

Just watched it. He has some good info. Thanks for the heads up

[cb817]

Played with the tune some more. Looking for any advice or insight from you all
Current Tune - End of day 12-9-20.hpt
data log 5.hpl

[sevinn]

Not having looked at this yet (sorry wrong computer), but I'm curious and just want to make sure you have a baro and iat breakout on the vehicle?

[cb817]

Not having looked at this yet (sorry wrong computer), but I'm curious and just want to make sure you have a baro and iat breakout on the vehicle?

I had it setup as NA-MAP and then NA-TIAP with MAP and IAT. Getting ready to add a Baro in the mix to see if it helps

[MORLOK]

Since you mentioned you are a total noob, I think we should step back and give you the full picture of what you are up against here.
The LT platform uses Gen V software which is Torque Based, and being torque based changes EVERYTHING.
Idle, throttle position, transmission shifting.. all based on torque estimates and programing, it very different from the previous stuff.
You changed a lot of things with this engine. Throttle blade, intake size and configuration, exhaust, and cam. Really you only left displacement and compression ratio and there is a lot more to recalibrate than just fueling.

For example, here is what happens when you press the accelerator pedal. The pedal converts % position to a torque request via the drive demand table. This torque request is compared to the current torque output of the engine giving a torque error. This error is used to set a target engine condition to meet the given torque request. It uses the torque tables to determine the desired cylinder airmass and MAP pressure to create the requested torque. Then using the VVE table it converts cylinder airmass to total airflow. Using the throttle blade airflow equations it computes a desired throttle position to meet the requested airflow. Then it uses the MAF (I know you don't have one) to check if the desired airflow was met and then estimate steady state torque. Then when you change the pedal position again, it starts the process all over.
For Idle it runs this same routine, just the desired torque comes from calibrated tables.
The trans uses the torque estimates to adjust how fast it opens and closes each clutch to achieve a smooth shift.

You are on the right track tuning the VVE, that is a good start, but it still needs a bunch of work. Since you changed so much else you will probably need to adjust the MAP Virtual Torque Tables, throttle area, and intake volume. Getting the torque tables right could be a big pain, with most mods you can get away with leaving them stock, but you changed so much that it probably threw them pretty far off, and I have not seen a good way to calibrate them.

Good Luck!

[cb817]

Since you mentioned you are a total noob, I think we should step back and give you the full picture of what you are up against here.
The LT platform uses Gen V software which is Torque Based, and being torque based changes EVERYTHING.
Idle, throttle position, transmission shifting.. all based on torque estimates and programing, it very different from the previous stuff.
You changed a lot of things with this engine. Throttle blade, intake size and configuration, exhaust, and cam. Really you only left displacement and compression ratio and there is a lot more to recalibrate than just fueling.

For example, here is what happens when you press the accelerator pedal. The pedal converts % position to a torque request via the drive demand table. This torque request is compared to the current torque output of the engine giving a torque error. This error is used to set a target engine condition to meet the given torque request. It uses the torque tables to determine the desired cylinder airmass and MAP pressure to create the requested torque. Then using the VVE table it converts cylinder airmass to total airflow. Using the throttle blade airflow equations it computes a desired throttle position to meet the requested airflow. Then it uses the MAF (I know you don't have one) to check if the desired airflow was met and then estimate steady state torque. Then when you change the pedal position again, it starts the process all over.
For Idle it runs this same routine, just the desired torque comes from calibrated tables.
The trans uses the torque estimates to adjust how fast it opens and closes each clutch to achieve a smooth shift.

You are on the right track tuning the VVE, that is a good start, but it still needs a bunch of work. Since you changed so much else you will probably need to adjust the MAP Virtual Torque Tables, throttle area, and intake volume. Getting the torque tables right could be a big pain, with most mods you can get away with leaving them stock, but you changed so much that it probably threw them pretty far off, and I have not seen a good way to calibrate them.

Good Luck!

Thanks for the insight! I knew from the beginning it wasn?t going to be an easy task but definitely under estimated it. I?ll look into the suggestions you made to see if I can make it any better. I was able to drive it for a bit the other night for about 40 miles around town. It did decent but I need to find someone local who can really get this setup dialed in right

[sevinn]

I had it setup as NA-MAP and then NA-TIAP with MAP and IAT. Getting ready to add a Baro in the mix to see if it helps

I think once all of your sensors are in order things will help it to come together. Where are you located?

[cb817]

I think once all of your sensors are in order things will help it to come together. Where are you located?

Fort Worth, Texas