17 Camaro SS Tune help

[Doc Oc]

Hi all, new to the board and new to tuning in general. I've got a 17 2SS with catless lt's, ported msd, 95mm tb, e85 and custom tune. However, by my tuner's admission he doesn't do a lot of work on basic bolt on cars like mine so I was wondering if y'all wouldn't mind taking a look at his tune as well as one I've been working on? Been doing some research here for the last couple months but am still a babe in the woods. The main things I noticed on his tune vs others posted here is the pe enrich delay, cot enrichment, spark and knock retard tables. I've made changes that put his tune more in-line with what I've seen here but obviously don't want to write it without understanding what the differences are. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Jason

[ShaneB]

I'm not an expert by any means, so don't take this for more than just another noob pitching in his $.02, but I compared your file to my stock 18 2SS 1LE file, and other than the standard differences between a M6 and A8, he didn't really change much at all. I noticed all of your spark tables including flex were left alone, injection timing wasn't touched, VVE wasn't touched, VVT wasn't touched, driver demand tables seem factory, and for some reason he has you running pretty lean on gas and a little richer on alcohol, which I thought is usually done the other way around because E85 is just better in every way. Maybe leaving all of those things alone doesn't matter, but I know that I've been tinkering with my car for over a year now and I've changed a whole lot more in my cars file and I feel it hasn't negatively effected anything, and maybe even made it run better and smoother for me. Seems lazy in my opinion. But maybe that's just my thought process of if I'm giving someone several hundred dollars to do something for me because they do it for a living, it should be leaps and bounds better than what I could've done myself lol

[flyingfool007]

why havent you corrected the fan settings?

[Doc Oc]

I'm not an expert by any means, so don't take this for more than just another noob pitching in his $.02, but I compared your file to my stock 18 2SS 1LE file, and other than the standard differences between a M6 and A8, he didn't really change much at all. I noticed all of your spark tables including flex were left alone, injection timing wasn't touched, VVE wasn't touched, VVT wasn't touched, driver demand tables seem factory, and for some reason he has you running pretty lean on gas and a little richer on alcohol, which I thought is usually done the other way around because E85 is just better in every way. Maybe leaving all of those things alone doesn't matter, but I know that I've been tinkering with my car for over a year now and I've changed a whole lot more in my cars file and I feel it hasn't negatively effected anything, and maybe even made it run better and smoother for me. Seems lazy in my opinion. But maybe that's just my thought process of if I'm giving someone several hundred dollars to do something for me because they do it for a living, it should be leaps and bounds better than what I could've done myself lol

Thanks for the insight! Pretty much my thoughts exactly. I saw he didn't touch the flex fuel enrichment tables but there's a reason for that I believe. At the time it was tuned (on dyno) I didn't realize that the msd manifold had a good size vacuum leak.....so we were getting 12.8-9 afr with the oe ff table and he left it alone. I just found that leak this weekend and since plugging it my wb is now reporting 12:1 even...so that definitely has to be adjusted. But it doesn't appear he did much else and tbh, the car under-performed on the dyno vs. pretty much every other lt1 I've seen on the forums. With the mods n tune on e70 we only got 432 rw. He started tuning on it before we got a baseline with the factory programming so I have no idea if what he did even improved things or maybe hurt performance. Figured it was best to just learn myself as I've had it to him twice for tweaks and am still not happy. Going to take some time for sure! Don't even know what vvt/vve is lol...

[ShaneB]

Thanks for the insight! Pretty much my thoughts exactly. I saw he didn't touch the flex fuel enrichment tables but there's a reason for that I believe. At the time it was tuned (on dyno) I didn't realize that the msd manifold had a good size vacuum leak.....so we were getting 12.8-9 afr with the oe ff table and he left it alone. I just found that leak this weekend and since plugging it my wb is now reporting 12:1 even...so that definitely has to be adjusted. But it doesn't appear he did much else and tbh, the car under-performed on the dyno vs. pretty much every other lt1 I've seen on the forums. With the mods n tune on e70 we only got 432 rw. He started tuning on it before we got a baseline with the factory programming so I have no idea if what he did even improved things or maybe hurt performance. Figured it was best to just learn myself as I've had it to him twice for tweaks and am still not happy. Going to take some time for sure! Don't even know what vvt/vve is lol...

I also made a mistake, just *VT not VVT, pretty sure the factory cam timing at WOT is already spot on, but virtual volumetric efficiency and virtual torque tables. VVE is a table of how much air the engine thinks it should be taking in, with a MAP/Baro pressure ratio and RPM as the axis', and it looks horrendous in the factory tune. You can see what it looks like by going to Edit > Virtual Volumetric Efficiency in the editor and putting it in 3D mode. Not 100% on EXACTLY what the torque tables fully mean and how they're used, but you get the idea.
Anyways, yeah I'd say taking it to a more reputable shop or even having it e-tuned since you have a wideband is the next step, unless you're that adamant about getting your knowledge level up and trying it yourself. The only reason I feel like I can mess with my car is because 1. I have a wideband installed too that I can log with and 2. I went to "The Tuner School" at Hennessey Performance and was taught a little bit by Alex Peitz, who's got a well known shop in Houston and is an official HP tuners trainer.

[flyingfool007]

shes running super hot, no way you'll make gains at those operating temps. order the KAteck 175 t-stat and bring the fan temps down to a 180-190F

[Doc Oc]

Great info, thanks guys. Ordered the t-stat and did up the fans.

Shane B, when you said my fueling was a little lean on 93, did you notice that my tuner had fudged with the stoich values? He's got all the stoich values set lower making his fuel table richer than it appears....if I'm correct in how that works that is😂

[00GrcyGtr]

Thanks for the insight! Pretty much my thoughts exactly. I saw he didn't touch the flex fuel enrichment tables but there's a reason for that I believe. At the time it was tuned (on dyno) I didn't realize that the msd manifold had a good size vacuum leak.....so we were getting 12.8-9 afr with the oe ff table and he left it alone. I just found that leak this weekend and since plugging it my wb is now reporting 12:1 even...so that definitely has to be adjusted. But it doesn't appear he did much else and tbh, the car under-performed on the dyno vs. pretty much every other lt1 I've seen on the forums. With the mods n tune on e70 we only got 432 rw. He started tuning on it before we got a baseline with the factory programming so I have no idea if what he did even improved things or maybe hurt performance. Figured it was best to just learn myself as I've had it to him twice for tweaks and am still not happy. Going to take some time for sure! Don't even know what vvt/vve is lol...

Did this tuner not read and save everything from the stock file for you?
I'd like to see a comparison, "from your car". I compared my stock TBSS LS2 file to at least 3 or 4 other "stock files" and each was a little different surprisingly. I'm certainly no "pro tuner", but between guys on here and other TBSS owners I ended up with "after 30plus tune files and HOURS upon HOURS of road time" logging, I have a tune I am quite pleased with, except a couple spots I need help with because I don't quite understand them as well as I need to and "the help files on THIS site are very dated and vague" in my opinion. The items are "explained as to what they are and do", but very little info on what changes, plus or minus you might make will result in.

[TriPinTaZ]

Do you have a wideband on the car?

[dhoagland]

Great info, thanks guys. Ordered the t-stat and did up the fans.

Shane B, when you said my fueling was a little lean on 93, did you notice that my tuner had fudged with the stoich values? He's got all the stoich values set lower making his fuel table richer than it appears....if I'm correct in how that works that is😂

Are you talking about this table?

[Doc Oc]

Did this tuner not read and save everything from the stock file for you?
I'd like to see a comparison, "from your car". I compared my stock TBSS LS2 file to at least 3 or 4 other "stock files" and each was a little different surprisingly. I'm certainly no "pro tuner", but between guys on here and other TBSS owners I ended up with "after 30plus tune files and HOURS upon HOURS of road time" logging, I have a tune I am quite pleased with, except a couple spots I need help with because I don't quite understand them as well as I need to and "the help files on THIS site are very dated and vague" in my opinion. The items are "explained as to what they are and do", but very little info on what changes, plus or minus you might make will result in.

I don't have my file, but do have an oe tune I've been using for comparison. I've looked at 3-4 from the repository and haven't seen any differences not related to the transmission, but I am a newb, so keep that in mind lol. I'll email him today to get the actual file. Here's the oe file I've been comparing with.

[Doc Oc]

Are you talking about this table?

Yes sir. If you look in the first file I posted (tunersfile) you'll see he's got those values lower than they should be. So he leaned out the pe fueling but then richened it by fudging with stoich from what I can tell right? Is there a reason for that?

[Doc Oc]

Do you have a wideband on the car?

Yes sir. Not one I can integrate (easily) with the HP software though unfortunately.

[dhoagland]

Yes sir. If you look in the first file I posted (tunersfile) you'll see he's got those values lower than they should be. So he leaned out the pe fueling but then richened it by fudging with stoich from what I can tell right? Is there a reason for that?

If you look at the "Factory Tune" you posted note that it is NOT Flex Fuel Tune (Disabled Virtual Sensor).
I'm surprised to see it not scaled as most I look at are even thought Flex is not enabled

Do you have a Flex Fuel sensor installed? (I'm guessing you do)
If so he has that Stioch scale appropriate... That is for the sensor to read your Ethanol content and adjust your Tune accordingly.

I just installed a Sensor Kit on mine and I'm in the process of Tuning it.
This is my approach. Get a few full tanks of Ethanol free fuel run through it, see what content my sensor displays. If its off I'll then test the fuel to see if it is actually E-Zero (hopefully it will be very close and I won't have to worry about it, First blended tank and my sensor is now reading 5%)
Then Tune everything on E-Zero
From there go to E85 for a few tanks (or until sensor Maxes out, verify content) and Tune Flex adder tables..

[Ben Charles]

Sent you back the email! Let me know, I’ll get all this sorted for ya