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Thread: 2013 - Ford Focus SE, Aftermarket Turbo - Couple of questions/issues

  1. #1
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    2013 - Ford Focus SE, Aftermarket Turbo - Couple of questions/issues

    I'm currently in the process of tuning my 2013 Ford Focus, which is equipped with an aftermarket turbo. Engine is the 2.0 N/A TiVCT. Previous attempts at tuning have resulted in poor tunes with lots of drivability issues, so I'm learning to do it myself. The WOT pull is okay, partial throttle with boost almost always throws a P061b. I've started adjusting the Torque Tables to reflect the Brake Output Torque, moving in increments of 10, and I've tried commanding a richer AFR (10.8 on 93) on WOT. I plan on keeping it here until I can confirm that knock is in check with 10psi and the 12.2:1 static compression. I've attached the current tune and a log. MP7/8 are the ones I've modified the most. The other tables are still a mess. Here's a few issues and questions that have me stuck.

    1) I've set the Power Enrich Lambda to 7.4 but it almost always seems to start heading lean on a WOT pull around 4500. The Fuel Source PID stays at "Power Demand Enrich" but it's obviously referencing or blending another value that I can't find. Also, I have two PIDs for Commanded EQ with different values (SAE and Bank 1), which is most reliable?

    2) How does my timing look? I haven't touched the values but I'm not getting any KR. It does jump around quite a bit.

    3) The Driver Demand tables are currently stock. I assume I should update them to reflect the torque increases of the vehicle? I'm not sure how to balance this with modifying the torque tables. I've read all the posts on the torque system but it seems like most people with boosted applications have some tables or even an OS for reference instead of trying to scale them from scratch. Is the Brake Torque a safe indicator of TQ on the street? I know a dyno is most ideal.

    4) The throttle surges heavily in the area I'm trying to tune currently. Is that strictly a torque table issue or should I be looking in other locations as well.

    Thanks in advance!

    Log 5.hpl
    Focus Tune V2.hpt

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    Stock File for reference

    2013 Focus Stock Tune.hpt

  3. #3
    run non SAE channels if you can when logging, its supposed to provide a quicker polling time.

    my setup is NA so only so much i can offer but a lot of info is in the pages on these boards.

    nothing on the timing and tq maps is scaled for boost. here is a roush 727 tune for reference, i believe stock pulley should be right around 9-10 psi. youll see the load is scaled out to 1.5 on the tq tables and timing tables. also go through the airflow/speed density/general section, there are tables that need to indicate your FI not NA. Reference the roush tune here too. roush 727 2017.hpt

    the tune structure looks very similar to any of the coyote gen1/2/3. At this point Id consider any centrifugal or turbo setup 5.0 tune and question posted on these boards to be useful for you to glean from. The TB model for NA gets pushed past what it was designed for with turbo and centri blowers because of the positive pressure on the intake side of the TB. Tvs/roots/twin screw blowers dont see this positive pressure until behind the TB. DD tables get ignored once into the WOT region on the TB settings except for the tq ratio.. which will show up as enleanment or other forms of power reduction as a failsafe. so if the DD tables indicate at wot we should be at 300ftlbs and the EBT is showing 325, your running a tq ratio below 1, and subject to tq reduction of various forms.

    EBT is the calculated tq the ecu thinks its actually at. do you have these other tq channels to log?
    ETC and desired brake tq are the drive demand tables tq request with small adjustments for density and i believe a few other areas of expected tq loss (load on engine).
    engine indicated and scheduled are the torque tables tq values.
    tq.png

    id go back to stock TB settings unless its a different TB. IIRC the reason for the surge on the turbo/centri setups is the part throttle boost and NA TB-tq-dd tables. Your getting more air than the ecu thinks it should and it starts to shut the tb.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for your reply, sorry I missed it I don't have my notifications set up correctly yet. I ended up doing a lot of what you recommended just by trial and error, but I'm glad to know it seems to be in the right direction.

    I set the TB model back to stock (seems this was meant to be a hack instead of load scaling), and scaled all of my load dependent tables to 2.4 just to have it covered. I also raised the max calc MAP up to 60inHg to accommodate my boost range. I know these are still way off but at least now it has a reference for those load areas.

    Next was MAF tuning (3" housing) which, from what I read, couldn't have been previously done properly with Cylair Anticipation, Cylair Filter, and Desired Airmass Init all set to on (since this causes the MAF to be modified by incorrect SD tables), correct? I'm still looking for a clarification of what should be disabled when dialing in the MAF period, but for now I'm doing it with anticipation and desired air mass off, filter on. I'm going pig rich in boost (.65 lambda), but I suppose that's better than being lean.

    Once the MAF is done I assume I can use the correctly calibrated MAF air load values along with EBT to correct my toque and DD tables? What's will be the best pid for load at that point? I have a few that show inconsistent values. Am I also able to use the MAP pid to repopulate the SD tables (and if so, which one)? Or am I screwed because the ETC can only reference an effective area against a barometric throttle inlet? I could live with running off MAF only, but I find the drivability is much better with the hybrid.

    Thanks again!

    Log 15.hplFocus Tune V9.hpt

  5. #5
    id have to try it again, but my na setup wouldnt run with one of the cylair turned off, think it was anticipation. it would be easy and useful to confirm those actually impact your fueling though and how. i did not spend enough time with them off to check how the trims swung. i recall this being discussed but the postings were several years old. I found that the fuel mass multiplier per cyl and maf adaption had the biggest impact on my ability to get repeatable results when measure the trims on the same maf curve. ill have to try turning off a few other things and see what the outcome is. the type of driving and stability of throttle input matter here though so you are not constantly in transient fueling/decel etc.

    i did find that for what ever reason, the trims after an initial flash vs an actual drive cycle/cool down/cold start then full drive cycle change. I typically wait a day or two with at least 1 or 2 full drive cycles before making more maf curve changes based on fuel trims.

    unless the car has an actual map sensor in addition to the maf, you cant correct SD. you need an external map sensor. You will need the pro feature set or you might check and see if the AC pressure sensor is an option to log and you can use this 5v input to build a jumper harness to get a 2 or 3 bar map sensor input into the logs. from there you can actually correct the SD, compare the MAP pid vs measured.

    at wot ebt can be used to bump the DD up as is to avoid fuel or spark cut. you'll likely need to keep adjusting (to a point) as the maf curve is adjusted and different timing/fuel ratios are used. i have not found a consequence to overshooting the DD table in the WOT region but there may be one none the less.

    the torque tables can be dialed in using murfies method of using air load which comes from the maf sensor. https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...se-calculation

    airload is the preferred load pid to see where you are at in the timing tables and tq tables.
    murfie-
    Air load and absolute load should be almost identical. They describe the volumetric efficiency based on airflow or indicated and brake torque. NA range 0-~100% FI range 0- 200+%. Most tables that refer to load use these.
    Calculated engine load is the percentage of available peak load. Range for both NA and FI is 0-100%. This is typically only used for power enrichment fuel scheduling. In Fords case thats given from the torque in the driver demand table and torque maximum value.
    Last edited by Grim5.0; 01-21-2021 at 10:22 PM.

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    The setting that throws drivability out the window is Cylair Filter. This seems to be a consistent issue for almost anyone I've spoken to. My uneducated guess is that the pure MAF values move too quickly and have too much outlying data, and the STFT adapt so quickly that they end up chasing each other's tail during transient driving conditions. The ETC model also ends up acting sporadically as well. Whether or not I'm correct, this is what I'm going to operate with until I can find a better explanation or hit a wall. I've actually been able to get the car driving somewhat successfully with all of the settings disabled (presumably unfiltered MAF only). I also think I've avoided the infamous "leaning out at 4500" issue by having SD completely disabled.

    I'm going to wire up a 2 Bar MAP to my ngauge tomorrow and start working on Speed Density after MAF is 100% correct. I'm hoping bringing back the blended SD tables will bring back some stock-like drivability. The A/C sensor is buried back in the firewall with my turbo, so I'm giving up on that. I'm planning on locking the mapped points to do each table individually instead of dealing with the weighting.

    These two threads seem to have conflicting information about the function of these settings, although they're from different points in time and before the SD Calculator existed.

    https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...WOT-Cylair-Max

    https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...0-Inferred-MAP
    Last edited by RobCat030; 01-22-2021 at 09:10 PM.

  7. #7
    good to know on the cylair filter. im curious how your air load and absolute load line up after these get turned back on... there was quite a variance in the last log. is this stock fuel injectors? that some serious air for a 4 cylinder, 38 lb/min is stock 5.0 level at peak power rpm.

    also something to help the quality of the log data, might try reducing the channels/trimming things not being watched. Build specific channel logs for the TB, then torque and timing, then SD and mapped points etc. i run a standard list that hits on most areas of the tune as a general log and when i find something i broke ill switch to a stripped down, area specific one to make sure the data is getting the best opportunity for high polling speeds.
    Last edited by Grim5.0; 01-22-2021 at 10:40 PM.

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    That top part of the MAF curve isn't well tuned yet. I'm definitely not pulling 38 lbs lol. Doing this on the street makes it kinda hard to open it up and log steady state areas. I believe that the final number will be an air load below 2 since I am below 14.7 psi of boost. Probably somewhere around 20-25 pounds. I'll post. New log once it's 100% dialed in.

    I've already made the same realization about the channels as well, made my data 100x better.

  9. #9
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    Ultimately I ended up starting fresh because I was just having too many issues. Best idea yet. Had the MAF and SD dialed in after a few hours and pulling to 5k without issue (I'm only tuning to 5k right now since my clutch starting slipping after that). I may still do some minor adjustments here but the fueling is within 2-3% so I'm happy.

    Now I'm trying to make the appropriate adjustments to the Driver Demand and Torque Tables. The car drives fine and although I rack up IPC errors in some places, I think I could adapt the pedal feel a bit. It's hard to tune since I haven't really figured out what my preference is. I sort of like that the torque feel is similar to stock in the lower pedal positions, but I also think I could smooth the transition to boost.

    My new question is, why am I unable to get my ETC Torque requests higher than about 150ft/lbs? It's accounted for the in the DD. I know there are modifiers that affect the DD but I'm unable to find them. I suspect there's something that sets a maximum around that area.


    Focus Tune New V6 (Scaled Up Spark).hpt
    Log 3.hpl

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    Hey just wondering how you made out with the tune? I currently have the same setup and my mpvi3 should be here this week! Hoping to get it dialed in! Does anyone have any tips for this exact scenario?

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    Hi, any update with these subject have a 2015 se focus with aftermarket turbo coming and would need all the help I can guet

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    Couple of things to consider for both of you guys.

    1) If you're reading the things I wrote in 2019/2020, put it in context. In 2019 I tuned my first car, now I've written my own editing and flashing tools, and I've done OS patches in tricore assembly code. A lot of growth since then, but also a lot of asserting things I believed to be true that weren't. I would say the same goes for many of the active participants on this forum, not everybody goes back to correct themselves on every single post.

    2) You won't get this ECU to drive like a Focus ST. It can be made to work (WOT fueling is good, WOT transition is relatively free of throttle oscillation, etc.), but if you drove a Focus ST and thought "this will basically be the same thing," you are wrong.

    3) Different OSID's behave differently. What worked for me on an HFCK3 will not work on a CXGB3, and unless you're looking to start disassembling, there will be trial and error associated with your tuning (ie. changing things that seem unrelated to your problem).


    Since the C346 chassis already has multiple turbocharged drivetrains and PCM's (Focus ST, Focus RS, etc.), consider swapping the ECU to one of those. It's what I've done on my car, and the customer's I've convinced to do it were very happy with the result.

    I'm also working on a OS patch for Turbo Tom that will hopefully allow us to integrate a boost solenoid and a MAP sensor. It should be more ideal than swapping ECU's, but these things take time.
    Last edited by RobCat030; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:30 AM.

  13. #13
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    Hey Robcat message me on fb! Im hoping you might have an old file i could use until i can afford toms tune!

    https://m.me/johnathon.newcombe.7