69 Cutlass 2013 6.2 Escalade with T56, Won't Accelerate Past 3600 RPM

[Stepside66]

Hello! I've been finishing up the 6.2/T56 Swap in my 69 Olds Cutlass and I believe I have most of the kinks worked out (I think). I've taken it out several times and as well and smooth as it runs, I'm having a couple of issues. the first being it won't accelerate past 3600 RPM. I've checked the forums and looked at all I can think of (brand new to HP tuning) and not real sure what to look at for this particular problem. Hoping someone could take a look at the tune and scan and see what I'm missing or at least point me in the right direction. Second, when I'm driving and push in the clutch to shift, the throttle hangs a couple seconds before coming down. Is there a way to adjust this? Any info is greatly appreciated.

[blindsquirrel]

Parts of the electronic throttle controls used to live in the TCM, which is no longer present. You need a manual trans ECM operating system. And of course, the OS and APP and TB all have to be compatible as well.

[blindsquirrel]

And that's also why you're showing 158 MPH all the time; an auto trans ECM OS will not recognize a hardwired VSS signal, even if you copy the manual trans wiring and tune config exactly.

[Stepside66]

Parts of the electronic throttle controls used to live in the TCM, which is no longer present. You need a manual trans ECM operating system. And of course, the OS and APP and TB all have to be compatible as well.

I thought this is why HPTuners put the "ECM TRANS TYPE" switch in the editor.

The scanner shows the APP moves to 100 percent when pressed fully, the scanner shows the TB only going to half. If the OS was incompatible wouldn't the throttle not work at all? trying to learn...

[Stepside66]

And that's also why you're showing 158 MPH all the time; an auto trans ECM OS will not recognize a hardwired VSS signal, even if you copy the manual trans wiring and tune config exactly.

I don't have the VSS wired at all.

[NotSure]

Could this be bypassed in the rpm limits set for In-gear?

Fuel/Cutoff,DFCO/RPM Limits/Cutoff. In-Gear. The park and neutral are set at 3410, which is where it is cutting off at.

Or are there other issues to overcome as well?

[Stepside66]

I downloaded tunes for a Corvette and a Camaro with M6's from the repository and couldn't see any differences with my tune. I understand there are parts of the tune that aren't shown, but I wouldn't think those areas wouldn't be this problem.

[Stepside66]

Could this be bypassed in the rpm limits set for In-gear?

Fuel/Cutoff,DFCO/RPM Limits/Cutoff. In-Gear. The park and neutral are set at 3410, which is where it is cutting off at.

Or are there other issues to overcome as well?

No other issues at all. I did see that, but wasn't sure if gear selection was being reported to the ECM without a TCM. I guess default would be in Park or neutral? I'll change them to 6K and see. Thanks!

[blindsquirrel]

What happened to the tables for Abuse Mode when you deleted the TCM? That's part of the throttle controls. If the ECM thinks the TCM has failed/lost comm, it doesn't know what to do because it thinks something has gone terribly wrong. The auto/manual drop-down box does nothing.

[NotSure]

We'll let the smart people chime in about any pitfalls to using this OS, but if you end up trying to make this OS work, for your idle hanging you will need to log some idle airflow parameters such as:

idle follower airflow
idle minimum airflow
desired airflow
integral airflow
proportional airflow
startup airflow
idle spark correction

I would still add VE airflow, Dynamic Airflow, burst knock retard, injector tip temp, and intake valve temp to your logs. Probably forgetting some.

[Stepside66]

What happened to the tables for Abuse Mode when you deleted the TCM? That's part of the throttle controls. If the ECM thinks the TCM has failed/lost comm, it doesn't know what to do because it thinks something has gone terribly wrong. The auto/manual drop-down box does nothing.

I have no idea what happened to the Abuse Mode tables. Lets be honest, I didn't delete anything, I just didn't install the TCM since I was going to a T56. But, I have downloaded multiple tunes from the repository for M6 vehicles and none of the transmission tabs have anything other than (Trans/General/ECM Trans type & Configuration) and (Manual/Clutch Position Sensor and C.A.G.S.). I'm in "Advanced View" so, I'm confused.

[Stepside66]

We'll let the smart people chime in about any pitfalls to using this OS, but if you end up trying to make this OS work, for your idle hanging you will need to log some idle airflow parameters such as:

idle follower airflow
idle minimum airflow
desired airflow
integral airflow
proportional airflow
startup airflow
idle spark correction

I would still add VE airflow, Dynamic Airflow, burst knock retard, injector tip temp, and intake valve temp to your logs. Probably forgetting some.

Ok. I'm hoping to get this mechanically to a point where I can actually start tuning and learning. So, should these PID's be on Channels and Graphs or just Channels?

[NotSure]

Forgot Mass Air frequency (hz).

You just need to be sure that all of the PIDS you may need are in your channels when you log. After that, you can add/remove/modify them in your graphs or charts as desired.

[Stepside66]

Forgot Mass Air frequency (hz).

You just need to be sure that all of the PIDS you may need are in your channels when you log. After that, you can add/remove/modify them in your graphs or charts as desired.

Ok. Thanks! Waiting on a new cable that suffered a casualty then I'll get back to it. I do appreciate ya'll's help!

[blindsquirrel]

screenshot.06-02-2019 19.53.32 numbered.png

The throttle controls (the 'TAC' in Gen3 parlance) live in Slave Operating System and Engine, which are the two segments of the GM calibration that are not included in a HPT tune file.

Find VINs for identical vehicles except for trans type, like 2011 Camaro LS3 auto trans and 2011 Camaro LS3 manual trans, plug the VINs into GM TIS/SPS; even when they use the exact same Main OS ID, the IDs for Slave Operating System and Engine will be different to accommodate the trans type. They work in fundamentally different ways depending on if there is data coming back from the TCM or not.

[2xLS1]

I did not look at any of your files but I ran into a similar issue on a 6.2L with MT swapped into a 69 GTO. It was using a 07 Silv ECM only. I don't recall doing anything special to make it work without a TCM. The issue we had was like it would hit like a rev limiter at about 4K rpm and the ECM would close the throttle body. Scratched my head for white a while until I figured it out. It was exceeding the dynamic airflow limit in the Engine Diag>General>P0068>Max Airflow vs RPM. Multiplied that whole table X 1.2 and the problem went away.

[Stepside66]

screenshot.06-02-2019 19.53.32 numbered.png

The throttle controls (the 'TAC' in Gen3 parlance) live in Slave Operating System and Engine, which are the two segments of the GM calibration that are not included in a HPT tune file.

Find VINs for identical vehicles except for trans type, like 2011 Camaro LS3 auto trans and 2011 Camaro LS3 manual trans, plug the VINs into GM TIS/SPS; even when they use the exact same Main OS ID, the IDs for Slave Operating System and Engine will be different to accommodate the trans type. They work in fundamentally different ways depending on if there is data coming back from the TCM or not.

I see. So would a Segment swap work or is this something HPTuners can do? Thanks!

[2xLS1]

Looking at my file on that car again it looks like I multiplied X 1.2 the Max Airflow vs IGNV too, If you are using a E40 those tables are in the Engine Diag tab too. Try it.

[Stepside66]

I did not look at any of your files but I ran into a similar issue on a 6.2L with MT swapped into a 69 GTO. It was using a 07 Silv ECM only. I don't recall doing anything special to make it work without a TCM. The issue we had was like it would hit like a rev limiter at about 4K rpm and the ECM would close the throttle body. Scratched my head for white a while until I figured it out. It was exceeding the dynamic airflow limit in the Engine Diag>General>P0068>Max Airflow vs RPM. Multiplied that whole table X 1.2 and the problem went away.

Thanks 2xLS1. That'll probably be my next hurdle, I'm hoping NotSure nailed it with the "RPM Limits/Cutoff/In-Gear". I checked some other tunes and they are like, 6,600 across all gear selections, for some reason mine shows 3,410 in Neutral and Park and around 6K in all other gears. LS Swaps are hard on the brain.

[cabelas90]

Looking at the Log VS what you mentioned that would appear to be what is happening.