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Thread: 2018 up manifold on a 2017 help.

  1. #1

    2018 up manifold on a 2017 help.

    I've read everything I can find on this swap and the more I read the more I get confused.

    CMCV locked out

    Should I copy the cam mapped points from the 14 to the CMCV closed points?

    Exhaust is easy to figure out but I have no idea how to transfer the 14 intake c am timings to the 15.

    Am I on the right track?

    TIA

  2. #2
    Credit to RWTD for the following copy and pasted text:

    Deleting the (Charge Motion Control Valves, aka IMRC - Intake Manifold Runner Controls) can/give you more power above the normal CMCV opening, especially in the higher rpm range, as they do pose a slight restriction, but you will lose some low end power below approx. 2k (nothing really major, and a gear change in the future would keep you from even noticing). There isn't anything "funky" it does to the car, provided you make the proper adjustments in the tune. Also, anytime you add in a PDB (Positive Displacement Blower), they are automatically deleted in those kits anyway.

    With that being said, you MUST follow the detailed instructions below when deleting them on the S197 3V Mustangs, as well as any 3V 5.4 truck. The reason for this is when you set the "IMRC Switch" to "Disabled" the pcm thinks they are closed at all times, and you obviously want the "Open" table values to be used.

    How To: CMCV/IMRC Deletion & Tune Modification Information

    1: Under Engine, Airflow, General Airflow, change "IMRC Switch" to "Disabled".
    2: Under Engine, Airflow, General Airflow, copy the "Angle (IMRC Open) Torque" table to the "Angle (IMRC Closed) Torque" table.
    3: Under Engine, Airflow, General Airflow, copy the "Angle (IMRC Open) Load" table to "Angle (IMRC Closed) Load" table
    4: Under Engine, Airflow, General Airflow, copy the "Load with failed MAF (IMRC Open)" table to the "Load with failed MAF" table.
    5: Under Engine, Airflow, General Airflow, copy the "MAP at Zero Airmass (Open)" table to the "MAP at Zero Airmass (Closed)" table.
    6: Under Engine, Airflow, General Airflow, copy the "MAP per Airmass (Open)" table to the "MAP per Airmass (Close)" table.
    7: Under Engine, Spark Control, Spark Advance, copy the "Base (IMRC Open)" table to the "Base (IMRC Closed)" table.
    8: Under Engine, Spark Control, Spark Advance, copy the "Base MBT (IMRC Open)" table to the "Base MBT (IMRC Closed)" table.
    9: Under Engine, Spark Control, Spark Advance, add (+) the "Base MBT" table under IMRC Spark to the "MBT Spark" table under Main Spark. To do this, copy this entire table by clicking on the top left cell, right click copy, then do a "Paste Special, Add" into the correct table. Once done, zero out the "Base MBT" table.
    10: Under Engine, Spark Control, Spark Advance, add (+) the "Base" table under IMRC Spark to the "Borderline Knock" table under Main Spark. To do this, copy this entire table by clicking on the top left cell, right click copy, then do a "Paste Special, Add" into the correct table. Once done, zero out the "Base" table.

    Edit: FYI, I just found a problem with the software. It doesn't allow negative values on the tables listed for #7 and #8 above. However, I don't think any of the negative values are different between the two tables, just the positives ones only (just glancing at them, tho). Regardless, I'll send in a bug report to support.

    I hope this helps!

  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner
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    It’s a different procedure to determine them on a gen 2 coyote compared to the 4.6 3v and 5.4 3v

  4. #4
    I'm not having much luck. I can get it to run well above 2000 but below that it stumbles and hesitates. Logs show tip in limit and tip in detonation also am getting trans truncation.

    The tip in detonation is constant on all my tunes.

    I honestly don't know enough to figure this out.

  5. #5

  6. #6
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    Here's a stock roush file that has the CMCV deleted and all of the tables adjusted for lack of them on the car.roush 727.hpt

    keep in mind the timing tables will have to be calibrated for NA as these are for boost. But it will allow you to setup the timing and cams to always use tables 14-26 and ignore 1-13. AKA makes the ecu see the CMCV as always open basically.

    for your tipin issue, there's a table under the spark tab on the far right called tipin retard, you can lower that or 0 it out all together but dont do that till youre sure its not from other issues. Also always a good thing to post your current tune and a log of what its doing so you can be more properly helped.
    ?Our greatest success comes from failure? -Confucius

  7. #7
    So that is all I need to do? What about the distance tables and snap to?

    Here is my tune that doesn't work in the sub 2000 RPM range. I lost the log but I can log again if nothing jumps out with the posted tune.

  8. #8
    Looks like the Roush file I used is different than the 727 file. I'll try it.

    This

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ishyne22 View Post
    Tried this and had surging and a PO300 code.

  10. #10
    Tuner in Training
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    you are very close. Make mapped point 0-12 all 0'S and your good to go. i have posted a pic of your tune with the change.
    Screenshot 2021-01-25 202806.png

  11. #11
    Don't know how I missed that.

    Thanks I'll give it a try in the AM.

  12. #12
    That file doesn't work either. Very choppy below 2500. It could be lived with but not for me.

    I didn't log enough parameters to figure out what is going on, just goes into torque control at low throttle and then it chugs a bit.

    Does anyone have a tune that works and keeps stock drivability? I think it the cams and the way ford uses overlap on the gen 2. But since I cannot find any information on actual cam timing I am at a brick wall.

  13. #13
    Here is what I did log, traffic.

    Not enough parameters I didn't look at what config I had loaded.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by K44 View Post
    That file doesn't work either. Very choppy below 2500. It could be lived with but not for me.

    I didn't log enough parameters to figure out what is going on, just goes into torque control at low throttle and then it chugs a bit.

    Does anyone have a tune that works and keeps stock drivability? I think it the cams and the way ford uses overlap on the gen 2. But since I cannot find any information on actual cam timing I am at a brick wall.
    What all did you take from
    The roush file? Or did you look at it?

  15. #15
    I have a 2016 Roush 727 running with my stock strategy, not sure if it will help since I don't have locked cams, but my speed density settings are kinda close. Default2.hpt

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by aaronson View Post
    What all did you take from
    The roush file? Or did you look at it?
    I posted the tune, Roush2

  17. #17
    Do you think that my problem is coming from the SD tables?

    Yours are quite a bit different from my stock tables.

  18. #18
    Tuner in Training
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    I feel like your trying to "punk" us here. I would highly suggest downloading a fresh stock file from the tune repo and only making the changes i suggested to get the car running correctly with the imrc lockouts. Use the compare file to see exactly what changes are needed to get back to stock and go from there. If you werent aware you have changes in your fueling tables that are not stock. Right now it appears like your biting from a bunch of other tunes and made a big ugly FRANKENTUNE.

  19. #19
    Tuner in Training
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronson View Post
    What all did you take from
    The roush file? Or did you look at it?
    Looks like he made changes to the distance tables but still has not shut off 0-12 mapped points.

  20. #20
    The mapped points are turned off.

    I gave up and ordered pig tails.

    I was testing on the stock manifold before I install the 18. I plugged off the vacuum to the motors, they have enough spring pressure to keep the CMCV's open.
    Last edited by K44; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:09 AM.