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Thread: How do I setup EQ ratio for ve tuning?

  1. #1
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    How do I setup EQ ratio for ve tuning?

    I was working with a tuner on this file and at this point I really just need to learn to tune with HPtuners.

    Im logging AEM wideband through serial port and did an eq ratio error. It shows lean all over the place. Did I set this up correctly? I also made a LTFT+STFT but that shows rich.

    Can you please take a look.
    Im also having idle issue where it wont hold idle unless I baby it.

  2. #2
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    Remove the 1 bar MAP channel, it will skew the data. Only log the 3 bar channel in the logs.

    I think your injector flow rate is wrong. If they are 210's at 43psi they would only be ~240's at 58psi and not maxed out at 254lb/hr. I would lower the fuel pressure to help better control those injectors, run 43.5psi or 50psi. Either or would be plenty for those size injectors.

    The logs show the fuel trims are rich at idle and part throttle but then if the wideband is right it goes very lean under load and into boost.

    If you are going to tune with your wideband you need to disable the fuel trims and closed loop and use your Lambda error to fix the VE table. Just make sure you have no exhaust leaks and that the sensor isn't in an open header where it can suck in oxygen. Also make sure fuel pressure is steady.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5FDP View Post
    Remove the 1 bar MAP channel, it will skew the data. Only log the 3 bar channel in the logs.

    I think your injector flow rate is wrong. If they are 210's at 43psi they would only be ~240's at 58psi and not maxed out at 254lb/hr. I would lower the fuel pressure to help better control those injectors, run 43.5psi or 50psi. Either or would be plenty for those size injectors.

    The logs show the fuel trims are rich at idle and part throttle but then if the wideband is right it goes very lean under load and into boost.

    If you are going to tune with your wideband you need to disable the fuel trims and closed loop and use your Lambda error to fix the VE table. Just make sure you have no exhaust leaks and that the sensor isn't in an open header where it can suck in oxygen. Also make sure fuel pressure is steady.
    Thank you for the response. I have adjusted the flow rate and other injector characterization based on ID2000 (i read that its works well for the Bosch as well.
    https://treperformance.com/i-2389934...amaro-ls3.html
    I left it at 58psi at the regulator since i was not sure what the flow rate would be with 43.5 psi or so.

    Tried to tune with wideband. I'm now logging "closed loop active" and it stayed "No"
    I changed the BE to enabled at 70kpa so that my idle is at 1 lambda(it was targeting .78 before)
    Can you tell me how the log 4 looks? My EQ error still shows i have a lot to clean up on the VE table. and it goes lean under boost. Tune 4 I increased that a bit as its really lean.

    I didnt go out logging after this as Id like to check to make sure im heading in the right direction.

    Do you think as this point I can just fill up my EQ error and keep working at my VE Table?

    Idle question. I attached a log of my idle dying out. Unless I baby it to 800 rpm. The car surges and die even with a little bit of revving. How do I correct this issue?

    Thank you
    Attached Files Attached Files

  4. #4
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    What 3 bar MAP are you running?


    Those injectors are rated at 43.5 psi, so if you plugged in the data like in their speadsheet you need to run 43.5 psi. Running 58psi means the data is even more off. Is this a return or returnless fuel system and does it have a boost referenced regulator?? That will determine whether the flow rate is flat or sloped.


    Don't lower the PE and BE map enable that much, you'll be dipping in and out of that when you don't need too. If the VE is tuned right you can have it enter PE at 90 kpa and BE at 105 kpa with no real issues. Keep boost low while you fix stuff. Not a good idea to let it see 15+ psi of boost when you haven't even tuned it with 5 psi of boost yet. E85 is very forgiving but don't let it get away from you. It will let you make more power on a leaner fuel mixture than pump gas.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5FDP View Post
    What 3 bar MAP are you running?


    Those injectors are rated at 43.5 psi, so if you plugged in the data like in their speadsheet you need to run 43.5 psi. Running 58psi means the data is even more off. Is this a return or returnless fuel system and does it have a boost referenced regulator?? That will determine whether the flow rate is flat or sloped.


    Don't lower the PE and BE map enable that much, you'll be dipping in and out of that when you don't need too. If the VE is tuned right you can have it enter PE at 90 kpa and BE at 105 kpa with no real issues. Keep boost low while you fix stuff. Not a good idea to let it see 15+ psi of boost when you haven't even tuned it with 5 psi of boost yet. E85 is very forgiving but don't let it get away from you. It will let you make more power on a leaner fuel mixture than pump gas.
    Im using this one https://www.efisource.com/wp/shop/ls...ar-map-sensor/

    I did not realize that was meant for 43.5psi. I gave that info to my "tuner" and he had me set it up to be 58psi
    But I was also told it was fine to go into boost now , I didnt realize just how lean the car was until this last run tune.

    Car is setup in return, with boost reference fuel pressure regulator. So I guess I should be setting my flow rate to 241.7 across the board.
    Ill go ahead and change that up and relog.

    Do you have any thoughts on why It just dies on idle?

    Thank you

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner Lakegoat's Avatar
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    You have to get the fuel injector data correct first. There are 4 other injector tables to get correct also. Then tune the VE and it will make a big difference. Right now, you have too much base running airflow, but that is because of the above and what 5FDP said also. Your spark overspeed and underspeed can be reduced to tighten up the spark. Where over is -12, make that -6 and under is 14, make that 8. You may want to change that as you go, but it a place to start.
    2000 Camaro SS 2015 L83 port injected, Whipple 3.0, 4L80E, 8.8 Ford
    2013 Silverado 5.3, 6L80k 8.8

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakegoat View Post
    You have to get the fuel injector data correct first. There are 4 other injector tables to get correct also. Then tune the VE and it will make a big difference. Right now, you have too much base running airflow, but that is because of the above and what 5FDP said also. Your spark overspeed and underspeed can be reduced to tighten up the spark. Where over is -12, make that -6 and under is 14, make that 8. You may want to change that as you go, but it a place to start.
    Updated.
    Dropped fuel pressure to 43 psi. I updated the injector characterization based on this.
    https://treperformance.com/i-2389934...amaro-ls3.html
    Changed the Offset, short pulse and flow rate.
    Ive also update the over and under.
    changed the transient from .008 to .002
    zero out the adapted idle.

    I didnt do it all t once but in steps. So far the car idles, still hunts and die but much better compared to before. But still not good enough to drive.

    What is typically the root of surging and dying idle?

    I felt like ive followed the guidelines for idle and fuel set up. There must be something im missing.

    Log attached
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #8
    Senior Tuner Lakegoat's Avatar
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    Look at your ve table in 3D view. Kinda choppy like your idle. Click on smooth about 3 times and go do another log and correct from there. Your Injector offset table doesn't look correct for your flow rate table. Flow rate is flat, offset is increasing.
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    2000 Camaro SS 2015 L83 port injected, Whipple 3.0, 4L80E, 8.8 Ford
    2013 Silverado 5.3, 6L80k 8.8

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by balm View Post

    What is typically the root of surging and dying idle?
    Not being gentle with the cals is the root. Almost everything idle related needs to be less aggressive when it corrects.

    1) Spark over/under correction...like Lakegoat said, bring those down. Even more than you already did. Start with stock settings and reduce them by at least half.

    2) Turn adaptive idle back on. That didn't help you.

    3) Again as Lakegoat said, your injector offset table needs the 0 column copied into every column. With a regulator, no need to compensate for pressure delta. Stays the same. That's what is causing your fuel trims to wind out forever....extra fuel from the offset.


    Bunch of other stuff to fix, but start with that..

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeshow View Post
    Not being gentle with the cals is the root. Almost everything idle related needs to be less aggressive when it corrects.

    1) Spark over/under correction...like Lakegoat said, bring those down. Even more than you already did. Start with stock settings and reduce them by at least half.

    2) Turn adaptive idle back on. That didn't help you.

    3) Again as Lakegoat said, your injector offset table needs the 0 column copied into every column. With a regulator, no need to compensate for pressure delta. Stays the same. That's what is causing your fuel trims to wind out forever....extra fuel from the offset.


    Bunch of other stuff to fix, but start with that..

    Is this atleast heading in the right direction?
    it idles and seems stable untill I actually start moving.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  11. #11
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    You are not in SD mode, MAF is not failed properly. P0101-103 MUST BE SET TO 'MIL ON FIRST ERROR'.

    You are not in SD mode, your logfile says there are no MAF codes set. See above.

    If you want to test whether it's in SD, zero out the MAF table. Also, in any logfile, down at the bottom of the channels list is a little tab that says 'Details'. Click that and it will show you DTCs during that logging session.

  12. #12
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Another thing. You can use EITHER a wideband, OR closed loop fuel trims. Not both at the same time. You have to pick one or the other. Right now your wideband is reporting what's happening after the trims have moved things around. If you want the wideband to give you unskewed data you MUST disable closed loop. Collect the EQ ratio error and apply that to the VE table.

    Another another thing. Do not log any MAF channels when you want it to be in SD mode.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    Another thing. You can use EITHER a wideband, OR closed loop fuel trims. Not both at the same time. You have to pick one or the other. Right now your wideband is reporting what's happening after the trims have moved things around. If you want the wideband to give you unskewed data you MUST disable closed loop. Collect the EQ ratio error and apply that to the VE table.

    Another another thing. Do not log any MAF channels when you want it to be in SD mode.
    Thank you. Corrected. Did I do that correctly?

    Its still surges quite a bit but I do not see the fuel trim on the log anymore
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