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Thread: 6R80 and 10R80 Training from The Tuning School

  1. #1
    Advanced Tuner LastPlace's Avatar
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    6R80 and 10R80 Training from The Tuning School

    6R80 and 10R80 Training from The Tuning School

    https://thetuningschool.com/collecti...smission-guide

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    Turbocharged COYOTE.....PM for Tuning

  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner LastPlace's Avatar
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    Like anything, it’s an other tool in the tool box

  4. #4
    Tuner in Training
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    Curious as well. The 10 speed is downright horrible, but I have no idea where to begin.

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    Tuner barkingspud's Avatar
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    I am going through it now. It is a great starting point and is well worth the $320.

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    Subscribed for more feedback on this guide. Please tell us how detailed it gets if you've taken this course. How good is the 6r80 info, the 10r80 info?

    Does it tell you why you're making the changes or just tell you the common settings? For example there's a Moderate and Aggressive path. When you're done with the course, if you wanted something in the middle, would you know how? What if your trans was older or some other variable, perhaps high performance clutches which could impact the expected results, would you be able to look at the scanner logs and make appropriate adjustments to get the preferred behavior with confidence?
    Knock Retard is the reduction or prevention of knock by lowering ignition timing:

    (+) Adding Knock Retard = Reducing Timing. PCM is seeing knock.
    (--) Lowering Knock Retard = Increasing Timing. PCM isn't seeing knock.
    __________________________________________________ ________

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

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    Tuner barkingspud's Avatar
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    I have only gone through the 10R80 portion so far but I will say unlike the Coyote Tuning Course, they actually do explain the what and why of making changes. They also provide different tracks Mild, Towing, Moderate and Aggressive based on a simple formula of going through Torque Management, Shift Pressures, Shift Scheduling and Torque Converter lock/unlock scheduling. I built a pretty decent street tune with great drivability while maintaining Torque Management making for a safe tune. I'm going to use what I've learned and see if I can apply the method on the track and see if it actually works. Will report back.

    The one thing they don't go through is how to interpret the log data. They do explain the Torque Hole concept and a few things although I'd really like to learn more.
    Last edited by barkingspud; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:25 PM.

  8. #8
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    Their EcoBoost training was terrible. I'm curious about the transmission guide for the 6R80 though, mainly to help with tuning the 6F55.

  9. #9
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    I've got just the book for the 6R/10R, but like barkingspud have only used the 10R part of it. For me it was very eye opening. I understood how an auto transmission worked before the book, but I only understood the mechanical parts...the nuts and bolts. I never fully understood what was going on inside the controller. The Tuning School stuff does a good job of breaking down the different "stages" of a shift, what happens in each stage, and for the most part what settings control what part of the shift.

    What you will NOT learn: It doesn't go over every single setting in the transmission. It doesn't even get close. It only shows you the settings that need to be changed to alter the shifts and gives some baseline settings to start with based on your power level and goals.

    I thought the book was worth the $180 or whatever it cost by itself.

  10. #10
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    The different stages of the shifts are covered in various patents, and murfie posts them very often. But what was missing was a direct correlation on the settings and how to tweak them and their results. The 6F55 and 6R80 follow similar logic/patterns. What I'm interested in is cutting down the shift times from the 400 ms or so currently at WOT down to maybe 300 ms or maybe 250 ms but unlikely.

    GM is able to get their 10L80 (their version of the 10R80) to shift at 125 ms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mejohn50 View Post
    I've got just the book for the 6R/10R, but like barkingspud have only used the 10R part of it. For me it was very eye opening. I understood how an auto transmission worked before the book, but I only understood the mechanical parts...the nuts and bolts. I never fully understood what was going on inside the controller. The Tuning School stuff does a good job of breaking down the different "stages" of a shift, what happens in each stage, and for the most part what settings control what part of the shift.

    What you will NOT learn: It doesn't go over every single setting in the transmission. It doesn't even get close. It only shows you the settings that need to be changed to alter the shifts and gives some baseline settings to start with based on your power level and goals.

    I thought the book was worth the $180 or whatever it cost by itself.
    Good reply thank you.

    I would not expect the book to go over every single setting of the 10R80 but the 6R80 I could see being covered since there's way less settings.

    As far as trans operation goes I feel I have good knowledge. I've spent many hours reading patents and looking at what occurs during a shift, specifically targeting my 6R80 platform. I eventually came up with a decent trans tune that's safe but effective by reading, looking at some good reference tunes, a little trial and error, etc. It's conservative though and I want to make an all out track tune to squeeze the most time out of the car when I want to without causing damage. For that I need to know the upper limits of all settings and why....so I'll probably buy it just because it has those upper limits as a reference and hope it has some technical tidbits that sweeten the deal.
    Knock Retard is the reduction or prevention of knock by lowering ignition timing:

    (+) Adding Knock Retard = Reducing Timing. PCM is seeing knock.
    (--) Lowering Knock Retard = Increasing Timing. PCM isn't seeing knock.
    __________________________________________________ ________

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

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    Quote Originally Posted by metroplex View Post
    The different stages of the shifts are covered in various patents, and murfie posts them very often. But what was missing was a direct correlation on the settings and how to tweak them and their results. The 6F55 and 6R80 follow similar logic/patterns. What I'm interested in is cutting down the shift times from the 400 ms or so currently at WOT down to maybe 300 ms or maybe 250 ms but unlikely.

    GM is able to get their 10L80 (their version of the 10R80) to shift at 125 ms.
    Are you saying The Tuning School book covers the direct correlation on settings? Is this a digital download or a physical copy that needs to be shipped?
    Knock Retard is the reduction or prevention of knock by lowering ignition timing:

    (+) Adding Knock Retard = Reducing Timing. PCM is seeing knock.
    (--) Lowering Knock Retard = Increasing Timing. PCM isn't seeing knock.
    __________________________________________________ ________

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

  13. #13
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbolt22 View Post
    Are you saying The Tuning School book covers the direct correlation on settings? Is this a digital download or a physical copy that needs to be shipped?
    I was saying that murfie's posts and the patents were missing the direct correlation for the settings.

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    Thank you all for each reply to my questions.

    It only comes in printed form and I should have it by the weekend if they ship out soon. I'll provide feedback on it as well...
    Knock Retard is the reduction or prevention of knock by lowering ignition timing:

    (+) Adding Knock Retard = Reducing Timing. PCM is seeing knock.
    (--) Lowering Knock Retard = Increasing Timing. PCM isn't seeing knock.
    __________________________________________________ ________

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

  15. #15
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbolt22 View Post
    Thank you all for each reply to my questions.

    It only comes in printed form and I should have it by the weekend if they ship out soon. I'll provide feedback on it as well...
    I'm certainly interested in your opinion on the book!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroplex View Post
    I'm certainly interested in your opinion on the book!
    I have not read every single word but here's my opinion:

    I'm going to label this guide as a Beginner's Guide. If you've never tuned a 6R80 or 10R80 before and have no literature on how to & don't feel like reading through threads here to learn/comparing tunes, then get it. It's all consolidated in a simple guide that's really catered towards beginners and does not cover much more than a handful of changes for the shifting characteristics. The changes will indeed make a difference but leave some of what I deem 'base' changes on the table. As for the explanations on what is covered, it's decent. The guide is spiral bound and easy on the eyes with decent quality images of things. I would purchase an 'Advanced' Guide from them because I liked the way this one was put together.

    Personally I didn't learn anything. Many recommended settings are just blanket settings that rely on adding/removing % of stock values and doing more of the same for stronger results with the recommendation to test. There's a flaw in that approach though. Improvements have been made throughout the years and many stock values were adjusted as such which changes the baseline. Pretty sure all of us who have tuned these transmissions start out with something like increasing X Table by 10% for example, then going for a ride to see what happens. I expected the guide to provide the maximums for parameters with the 'aggressive' path but I do not feel it did so accurately... Instead it was like increase X by 10% for mild, 20% for aggressive for example. I wanted something like 'you can increase the pressure of this table up to 100 but do not go higher' or 'you can go as high as 23% over stock' showing some sort of actual testing. There is ONE single parameter they cover like that and its about timing. They say don't go lower than this. That was maybe the one 'nugget' of the whole guide lol

    For the 6R80, compared to my copy of the cookbook which didn't even focus on trans, I think the cookbook covers more and explains a little more on each topic as well. Obviously this guide wins for 10R80 as it's the only info I know out there and something is better than nothing. Aftermarket Torque Converters aren't covered. The only thing covered is the TCC schedule. This was a let down.

    Sorry. None of my questions were answered. None of the mysteries were revealed. None of the correlations on settings vs patents vs logs kind of stuff either. All we have is Murfie's teachings and explanations for now. Thank goodness for that. Like someone else said, another tool in the box. Each bit of info that's out there you grab up hoping to find at least one thing that's unknown.
    Knock Retard is the reduction or prevention of knock by lowering ignition timing:

    (+) Adding Knock Retard = Reducing Timing. PCM is seeing knock.
    (--) Lowering Knock Retard = Increasing Timing. PCM isn't seeing knock.
    __________________________________________________ ________

    2014 Mustang GT Premium. VMP Gen2R Supercharged with an FTI 3000rpm Converter. JLT, BMR, Steeda, Viking, etc.
    Don't fix it if it ain't broken | Maximum effort gets maximum results

  17. #17
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    Thanks. Sounds like a typical Tuning School product.

  18. #18
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    I have it and found it very useful. Like others said, it is not "all encompassing" but it does what you need to do with most tunes. It provides different paths for Mild, Moderate/Towing and Aggressive transmission tunes. Tells you what you can do without damaging or shortening the life of the trans and firm up as well as shorten the shifts. I think its well worth the money they charge.

  19. #19
    Tuner barkingspud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbolt22 View Post
    --Snip--

    Sorry. None of my questions were answered. None of the mysteries were revealed. None of the correlations on settings vs patents vs logs kind of stuff either. All we have is Murfie's teachings and explanations for now. Thank goodness for that. Like someone else said, another tool in the box. Each bit of info that's out there you grab up hoping to find at least one thing that's unknown.
    That's the frustrating part. I don't do this for a living (or even a side gig) I only want to learn and understand what needs to be changed for a desired outcome on MY car. Unfortunately, the information isn't "out there" and considered intellectual property by those who've "figured it out" either by trial and error or, a background from (in this case) Ford in powertrain design and engineering. I completely understand that aspect which explains why this course is simple, basic stuff for those who do it for a living. I found it helpful but only up to a point. Simple bolt-on's, yep. Forced induction in a racing application, nope.

    I'd pay money for a real course (in person and/or online) that goes in to great depth on both the Engine and transmission aspect of tuning these beasts. Those courses imply don't exist.

    Appreciate your insight and all the others here who help each other out.