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Thread: Labotomy

  1. #1
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    Labotomy

    I have been doing engine swaps for the last 35 years, mostly to electric but the last 10 years a few diesels. A few VW TDI's into Jeeps and a Ranger, an Isuzu 4HF into a dually Dakota and a Cummins ISB170 (common rail 4BT) into an 08 Dakota. In the past I have just fooled the basic sensors to keep the PCM alive enough to run the dash but lots of errors. On my TDI swaps I use Malone tuning and Mark is fantastic at tuning out all the sensors that I don't use. I'm hoping HP will allow me to do the same on the Hemi PCM.
    Now looking at a diesel swap into a 2014 Ram 1500 that has a 5.7 Hemi. Yes I realize I can just buy a 2500/Cummins or a 1500 Echodiesel so lets just skip those flames. ;>)
    The PCM/BCM is a lot more integrated and I would like to reduce the number of sensors I need to fool. It looks like the HP software allows me to turn off O2, knock, EGR and MAF, are there any other sensors I can disable? I have not bought the software yet but did download the sample package. I don't suppose I can tune out injector and coil pack errors since those will not be used in the swap. I will install a few of the Hemi sensors into the diesel like oil pressure and water temp. I can build crank and cam tone wheels as I did on the 08 Dakota though not sure I can get them in sync. I will use the Hemi throttle pedal.
    I will keep the ZF8 trans and looking forward to changing shift points.
    Appreciate any insight into how much this software will help me.

  2. #2
    Tuner Dozer's Avatar
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    Yes you can turn off coil and injector sensors with Hp Tuners and many many more by unchecking ses/mil in the engine dtc's section in the tune. Once doing that the pcm will no longer monitor that sensor along with changing temp and time requirements in the tune. There are also on/off enable/disable settings in the tune for some. You would also be able to tune the trans shift point rpm. Looking at a 14 ram 1500 5.7tune it has a 65rfe not a zf8. Hp tuners would be a very useful tool for this swap.
    Last edited by Dozer; 02-24-2021 at 11:26 AM.

  3. #3
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    Thank you very much for the reply Dozer. I was beginning to think I was asking too technical of a question. ;>)
    My truck does have the 8HP70 trans and looking forward to the ability to change shift points since the Cummins is governed to 3200 RPM.

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    Tuner Dozer's Avatar
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    Im ure your aware Mopar Connecter will have all the pinouts for the pcm and senor connectors. I just finished a 2017 5.7 hemi into my 2013 3.6 v6 jeep wrangler rubicon. Made the swap a lot easier.

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    WOW, thanks for that. I really wish I had that for my Cummins Dakota, TDI JKU and TDI XJ swaps!! Would have saved a lot of trips to the dealer.
    I'm also going to buy the wiring and service manuals from Tech Authority this time. I have used Autoenginuity and Aliantech Ktag for years now but I think HP will give be just that bit more for swaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozer View Post
    Im ure your aware Mopar Connecter will have all the pinouts for the pcm and senor connectors. I just finished a 2017 5.7 hemi into my 2013 3.6 v6 jeep wrangler rubicon. Made the swap a lot easier.
    Do you mind me asking what you did for a ECU? did you use the 2017, the 2013 or run them as independent systems?
    Did you have to make any changes to the BCM?

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    Tuner Dozer's Avatar
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    I used a 2012 Challanger 5.7 ECU. It has the same CAN bus protocols in it as the JKU 3.6 ECU to communicate with the bcm, tipm and such. I had my vin put in it also to make the SKIM happy. I needed the jeep to pass obd2 smog here in NV. All emissions are working. Dash works no lights all emissions online. Only thing I lost was cruise control. The 5.7 ECU is lacking sc1 and sc2 outputs for speed control like the 3.6 ECU.
    Last edited by Dozer; 02-24-2021 at 05:26 PM.

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    So I assume all I need is the MPV12 for $299 and 2 credits to get me tuning my system?
    If I want to connect to my Dakota I can do that without more credits but if I want to change any settings I would need 2 more credits correct?

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    Yes that should do it. If you ever want to do cams, intakes, headers, forced induction get the pro version as you can data log with a wideband O2 sensor which integrates into the scanner. Makes it easy to make changes to the fueling table in the tune.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozer View Post
    I used a 2012 Challanger 5.7 ECU. It has the same CAN bus protocols in it as the JKU 3.6 ECU to communicate with the bcm, tipm and such.
    So the CAN outputs from the PCM to the TCM are the same regardless of transmission (RFE or 8HP or stick shift?) The reverse must also be true. What transmission are you running? I would have thought that the 2012 ECU wouldn't be able to run an 8HP70 since that was before the 8HP70's time. But maybe the proper CAN data existed well before the 8HP70?

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    Tuner Dozer's Avatar
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    I used my NAG1/A580 that came in my jeep. Changed the bellhousing to the v8 and v8 converter. The CAN data has different "hand shakes" between modules varying by vehicle and year. The 2012 challanger PCM has the same "hand shakes" in the CAN data as the other modules in my 2013 JKU allowing everything to communicate. I cannot speak to the 8hp70 as iv had no experience with it.
    Last edited by Dozer; 02-25-2021 at 01:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EVguy1 View Post
    So I assume all I need is the MPV12 for $299 and 2 credits to get me tuning my system?
    If I want to connect to my Dakota I can do that without more credits but if I want to change any settings I would need 2 more credits correct?
    You will need 2 credits for the PCM, and and additional 4 for the 8HP

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    So you need different credits for different modules on the same vehicle? That sucks.
    Thanks for the heads up though.

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    My MPVl2 arrived today. Its a LOT more than I was anticipating. I can see if I was into getting the most out of my engine its an awesome tool. For me its overwhelming. I think by the time I figure out how to reduce my ECM to the bare minimum I will be in an old folks home.
    I can see where to disable O2 sensors but that's about it. I still need the trans to shift properly so I cant disable everything. I have spent a few days watching youtube training videos but they are all showing how to make more power, not how to disable sensors.
    I suppose I'll just start posting individual threads on disabling specific sensors but that's just a guess as to what I can delete and still have the trans function.

  15. #15
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    Fist thing open VCM Editor click on EDIT (upper left of screen) in the drop down click on VIEW, next drop down change it from BASIC to ADVANCED. To turn most stuff off it will be under ENGINE DIAG then under DTCs. Every thing checked is a sensor and its function for your pcm. By unchecking the SES and the MILL boxes the PCM will no longer monitor that function/sensor. If you look through the the tune you will see lots of stuff being time based, rpm based, temp based and ect. Putting those parameters to a unachievable number will also stop that function on some sensors/function. Once the swap is done you can use the VCM Scanner Click on Diagnostic and Info and read the DTCs the PMC is needing turned off, having issues with to be happy it will list them. PCM will list all the DTCs/sensors that are problem so no guessing. You then can go back to the editor under DTCs and uncheck MILL and SES to turn them off and said senor. There will be some that require the time, rpm temp functions to be changed to unarchivable numbers to make the PCM happy. The tran has its own TCM and will be tuned in the VCM Editor un the TRANS tab. You will be able to change shift rpm there.
    Last edited by Dozer; 03-05-2021 at 12:00 PM.

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    Thank you VERY much Dozer. I have spent the last couple of days plugged in reading but not changing yet. I had planned today to start unplugging things I can see "disable" tabs in the software like O2 and knock to see what happened. I have also read quite a bit about disabling VVT, MDS and SRV so those were also on the list for today. If all I have to do is turn the SES and MIL off then my life got a whole lot easier.
    I was determined to have all PCM issues sorted out before I pulled the engine but it sounds like I can go ahead and pull it now and sort the PCM once its running with the new engine.
    I already swapped the original ECU and BCM with used ones and programed them for the truck so I keep the originals in case this goes south. ;>) Yes I have also saved a stock engine and trans tune file.

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    This morning I wanted to test this out. I unplugged one injector, one coil, AIT and ran the truck. Then read the codes.
    Then went into editor and unchecked all those in both MIL and SES columns. Uploaded the new tune.
    Opened the scanner program and read the DTC's and then cleared them. Read the DTC's again and they were still all there and the MIL is ON.
    What did I miss??
    I also re read the tune in the ECM and it is the updated tune.

    0x7E8: P0113 - Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit High (Permanent)
    0x7E8: P0125 - Insufficient Coolant Temp For Closed Loop Fuel Control (Permanent)
    0x7E8: P3401 - Cylinder 1 Deactivation/Intake Valve Ctrl Circ/Open (Permanent)
    0x7E8: P3425 - Cylinder 4 Deactivation/Intake Valve Ctrl Circ/Open (Permanent)
    0x7E8: P3441 - Cylinder 6 Deactivation/Intake Valve Ctrl Circ/Open (Permanent)
    0x7E8: P3449 - Cylinder 7 Deactivation/Intake Valve Ctrl Circ/Open (Permanent)
    0x7E8: U0140 - Lost Communication With Body Control Module (Permanent)
    0x7E8: U11BC (Permanent)
    0x7E9: U0001 - High Speed CAN Communication Bus (Permanent)
    0x7E9: U0100 - Lost Communication With ECM/PCM A (Permanent)

  18. #18
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    (Permanent) is just stored codes and should throw a light. Active pending do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozer View Post
    (Permanent) is just stored codes and should throw a light. Active pending do.
    Do you mean "should NOT throw a light" ?
    Will they go away in time?

  20. #20
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    My light is from P1DD2 and U1424 which are trans DTC's which I'm not going to tune for now but assume I can disable those as well in the trans tuning.
    I think I'm happy enough that I can make this work that Ill go ahead and yank the 5.7.
    Sure wish I had this software when I did my Cummins/Dakota 7 years ago. I'm going to try and go back to clean it's ECU/BCM up.