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Thread: Fiesta 1.0T not enriching at WOT

  1. #1
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    Fiesta 1.0T not enriching at WOT

    Hi,

    I'm trying to tune up my otherwise stock (for now) 2015 Fiesta SFE. I've tuned my Miata with a Megasquirt, but this is otherwise new to me.

    I started out with a combination of this guide https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-Tuning-Guides

    And the suggestions from Catnip's thread: https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...le-quot-thread

    However both leave many holes.

    I've increased injector max duty cycle to 1.05 (105%) and injection angle to 285 (up from 170).

    I increased some boost limits and MAX TORQUE OP 1 which seems to be the only table in torque management that had reasonable values from the factory. That's obviously successful as I'm seeing more boost, which is good.

    I've also changed the "Closed Loop Lambda at WOT" table to target 0.850 lambda where it was previously targeting 1.0:

    Screenshot 2021-03-21 180129.png

    I also changed "Fuel Enrichment Pedal vs RPM" which previously had "101" in the "2200" and "5500" settings.

    Screenshot 2021-03-21 181700.png

    I figured those 2 would get me enrichment at WOT before 5500, but I'm still not seeing it. I'm seeing "Fuel System #1 Status (SAE) = CL - Normal", the same as when I'm cruising, and the Equivalence Ration Commanded is still around 1 lambda.

    I know I'm not a pro tuner but 14.7 AFR at 20PSI seems like a bad idea.

    3.21.last.hpl
    stock_3_21-turnt-up-more-stable.hpt

    So, how do I get it to inject some fuel?

    Thanks

    Steve
    Last edited by steve.gredell; 03-21-2021 at 08:02 PM.

  2. #2
    I have been having issues with my 3.5 Ecoboost randomly commanding "Stoich" at WOT as well so I'm interested to see if you find a resolution. Different platform completely, but similar control strategy so hopefully something helps.
    Owner/Tuner@Evolution Automotive Performance
    Lincoln, Ne

  3. #3
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    Yeah it's definitely quite a learning curve compared to the 90s-EFI of the Megasquirt. Very cool though, as a software developer I'm much more comfortable with the idea of an IPC checking my work 😀

    I'm starting to get reasonably comfortable, my changes seem to be having the effects I expect, with the exception of the WOT lambda table. I thought I had some weird throttle oscillations going on, but after logging the right items I'm pretty sure it's just reacting to the requested torque. I will worry about smoothing that out once I get fueling sorted.

  4. #4
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    I did some more searching and thought I had it figured out. My Fuel Enrichment Pedal vs RPM was set at 90 from the factory (except for the spot it was set at 101, to keep it in stoich I figured), but others here are using more like 70-30%. I thought that might be the answer so I flashed this table along with raising the enrichment rate to 0.3 lambda/second

    Screenshot 2021-03-23 080220.png

    However, no change. I still getting stoich.

    I see that "relative throttle position" never gets above ~60%, is it using that rather than "throttle position" or "commanded throttle actual" (which is what I would hope it would use)?

    3.23.hpl

    Even if that's the case I should still be in enrichment above 4500rpm, which it clearly wasn't. I must be missing something else, but I don't see what it is.

  5. #5
    I have been wondering if it may be using commanded fueling as a method of torque management...
    Owner/Tuner@Evolution Automotive Performance
    Lincoln, Ne

  6. #6
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    Did you play with the Optimum Power Enable tables under Engine -> Airflow -> Variable Camshaft?
    On my Fusion Sport, at WOT the Fuel Source is (OL) Power Demand Enrich.

    However the commanded EQ ratio and actual WB EQ ratio don't exactly match desired lambda in the tune.

  7. #7
    Metroplex, I noticed in my EB F150 (2013) the OP tables are not enabled from the factory. Should I enable those?
    Owner/Tuner@Evolution Automotive Performance
    Lincoln, Ne

  8. #8
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    The variable cam OP mode or spark? I didn?t bother to populate the empty OP tables.

  9. #9
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    Thanks Metroplex, I saw those tables but ignored them as I didn't want to mess with cam timing until I get some dyno time. It never occurred to me that they'd prevent me from getting into OP. I lowered the values I have pictured above by 20% and pasted them into both tables. I also lowered the enable % load and min rpm vs ECT (the latter was blank).

    I also noticed there were 2 others on the Variable Cam page, "Best Drivability"->enable min load was set to 4.0, lowered it to 0.4 (might be too low for good economy but I just want some f-ing fuel man), "Fuel Economy"->enable max load was also set to 4.0, lowered to 0.4.

    Hopefully I'll be able to flash this and test during lunch time. One good thing about working from home in these times.

  10. #10
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    No change at all. And these lean pulls may have caught up to me. Sounds like I have a bad exhaust leak, and the engine is shaking like mad at idle. No CEL, I didn't think to check the diagnostic info on the VCM Scanner, I will try that next break. I also probably need new plugs, I don't remember when I changed them last.

    Still doesn't explain why it's still commanding 1.0 lambda any time I'm in power.

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    I just looked at your log, you only went quasi-WOT towards WOT briefly towards the end. You're running into some torque limiters. Can you log all the sources? Do a search for "Sources" and log them, should be several for Fuel, Spark, etc... That will give you a better picture than the Fuel Status PID (I've never seen or used this).

    I recommend changing the Power Enrichment pedal enabling tables to 70% for the lower RPMs and to like 50% for 3000+ RPM to make it easier to get into PE mode. My SHO was more precise with the WB EQ ratio matching commanded EQ ratio. My Fusion Sport would read leaner than what I commanded, but it would still be richer than 1.00

  12. #12
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    Yeah I did that a couple of posts above, and I've since lowered it further so next time I will try that.

    Thanks for the heads up on the sources, I'm a new user so any other hints like that to debug things would be appreciated. I've added those to my list of channels.

    However I did see this in the Electronic Throttle settings, I don't know how I ignored these before:

    Screenshot 2021-03-23 134019.png

    Is that what's causing the problem or is that just for Pedal Follower mode?

    It may be a bit before I get another log, I'll have to take off the turbo cover and inspect things to make sure nothing is broken. It wasn't leaking so hopefully it's just a spark plug or a lose turbo stud or something.

  13. #13
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    I made 2 guides for EcoBoost tuning, the other was for datalogging. i thought I had written in there to log all the sources. https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-Tuning-Guides

    Those throttle settings aren't the cause. I'd just leave them as is. Sometimes they go by AD counts, others by percentage. No rhyme or reason.

    But you are running into a torque limiter as it's capped at about 120-130 ft-lb when you're WOT.

    Your 44786 table Max Torque 1 table values should be increased. I'd give 200 ft-lb a try.

    Looking at your turbo, it doesn't flow a lot of air mass. Look for the Turbo air mass flow PID (or air mass) and keep track. I'm estimating it maxes out around 15-17 lb/min. Don't really need to go above 19-20 psi at the MAP, keep it under 19 psi to be on the safe side.

    I also noticed a bunch of tables missing for your transmission. You will want to contact HPTuners support to have them look at it and define the parameters. Do you have the funky twin-clutch gearbox or is it a straight up manual? There's a Torque Management table on automatics that would also limit torque output, but those tables are not defined on your strategy so you're missing half the puzzle pieces.
    Last edited by metroplex; 03-23-2021 at 01:31 PM.

  14. #14
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    Thanks, I don't know why I didn't look for a guide for logging. I will read that before my next test for sure.

    As for the torque limiters, I understand I'm hitting those right now, causing some throttle oscillations. Unless those are causing the ECU to decide I'm not at WOT I'm not too worried, as I want to make sure I'm getting fuel before I increase the torque limits more. I'm thinking of going back to the stock torque limits and boost settings just to make sure I don't hurt anything until I get this fueling right.

    I had a short break, but those heat shield bolts are rusty AF and hard to get to.

  15. #15
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    Full manual, hence the lack of transmission tables. It's definitely a teeny tiny little turbo, the compressor housing is smaller than your fist lol.

  16. #16
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    I don't want to keep spamming this thread, but I did find some good news. My massive exhaust leak was just a blown out flex pipe, I was worried it was the manifold or something.

    Looks like I may have had a bit of backpressure, not anymore! Should be plenty of shops around me that can fix it, and it looks post-O2 sensor so it shouldn't effect tuning at WOT.

    I hope it didn't blow out because I melted the cat!

    Also I fail at editing posts on mobile. That's twice now I've gone for "edit" and it decided I meant the "delete" button

  17. #17
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    OK, I turned boost down and torque up, and went for a very loud test drive.

    It logged the fuel source at least, which shows it was trying to enrich a small amount until 4200 where it switched to Stoich. Uh what?

    stock_3_23-boost-down-torque-up.hpt

    3.23.2nd.hpl

    I upped the enrichment rate from 0.1 lambda/sec to 0.3, should I up it to something stupid like 2? And lower my enrichment lambda target?

    That still doesn't explain going to stoich at 4200.
    Last edited by steve.gredell; 03-23-2021 at 04:33 PM.

  18. #18
    Advanced Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    So I forgot to say that your boost looked ok with the previous tune. When you cut down outlet pressure to 19 psi, you severely reduced your boost levels. Try going back to what you had before.

    For the VCT Optimum Power Enable Load Hysterisis, try 1.00 instead of 1.200

  19. #19
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    I'm OK with severely reduced boost levels until I get the fuel figured out. I was already creating enough heat to f*** up my flex pipe, I'd rather not turn it back up until I'm sure it's going to get the fuel it needs.

  20. #20
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    Took it for another spin after adjusting the hysteresis, upping the lamdba/second to 1.0, and lowering the target lambda to .800, another WTF log.

    It looks like it IS actually starting to lower the requested lambda at 3700rpm, but then at 4k it switches to Stoich and goes back to 1.

    3.23.wtf.hpl

    stock_3_23-boost-down-torque-up-more-fuel-less-hysteresis.hpt

    The turbo does sound awesome with the open downpipe, I may have to do a cutout if I ever mess with the exhaust.

    Thanks a TON for your help Metroplex, I'm being a pussy about the boost because it's currently my only running car. I don't drive every day anymore thanks to Covid but I'm still nervous about pushing too far to quickly, even with the IPC to check on me.