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Thread: LNF tuning

  1. #21
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    Sorry I haven't replied. I'm not as active as i was in the past and after receiving the second vaccine recently, I've been fighting to get back to normal.
    It sounds like you are making great progress. 3% with a smooth table is a great result.
    Reminder, when you post your logs, post the tune file you had in the ecu when you generated the logs. Then and only then, can anyone else really decipher exactly how your tune is behaving. Keep up the good work otherwise.
    That is ok! Hope you feel better soon! Sadly my fiances step dad was (and still is) hospitalized from receiving his dose.

    I think I am getting the hang of it now. Every change I do, I can feel and see what it is doing when before there would be lots of good changes and some bad and then I'd have no idea if it was from OP changes or other.

    I have never ran stock vs GMS1, I went right to a remote tune from stock (which was updated to GMS1 and then edited for a bit more) so I am debating changing everything to GMS1 and then tweaking things myself since I read GMS1 runs around 20psi of boost? That is all I am really looking to get my original 200k turbo to do since any higher may cause a replacement very soon (it was pushing 23-24psi on the remote tune) I know it is a leaner tune so I would update the PE and all that.

    My current questions are:

    1. does load damping help with quick blip of throttle knock? part of me thinks it does nothing (which I have also read a lot on the older threads) but I tried to disable it recently and I am not sure if it did anything. Sometimes its #4 but other times it is #3 or #1. 1-3.7 degrees.

    2. For smoothing out a table does that mean the 3d chart is really symmetrical? meaning the lines are all linear horizontally and vertically. I have been playing with this during my first version and there were some really good changes I felt during city driving but I also found a way to mess my idle up cause it became lumpy and random rev hanging (which I later fixed due to changing DFCO) the tables I hand smoothed were: main spark, op spark, torque to load,and optimum torque. The only one I hand smoothed for this new version has been main spark so far.

    3. For my cold start and idle I know GMtech mentioned ~20 degrees for cold start is ideal for a happy LNF. Mine was around 15 today but slowly declined to around 9-10. As the engine warms up does the timing drop that much? For idle I do notice sometimes itll run as low as 3-5 degrees or sometimes even negative timing. Only thread I could find on that was MikeM.

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  2. #22
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSmile View Post
    That is ok! Hope you feel better soon! Sadly my fiances step dad was (and still is) hospitalized from receiving his dose.

    I think I am getting the hang of it now. Every change I do, I can feel and see what it is doing when before there would be lots of good changes and some bad and then I'd have no idea if it was from OP changes or other.

    I have never ran stock vs GMS1, I went right to a remote tune from stock (which was updated to GMS1 and then edited for a bit more) so I am debating changing everything to GMS1 and then tweaking things myself since I read GMS1 runs around 20psi of boost? That is all I am really looking to get my original 200k turbo to do since any higher may cause a replacement very soon (it was pushing 23-24psi on the remote tune) I know it is a leaner tune so I would update the PE and all that.

    My current questions are:

    1. does load damping help with quick blip of throttle knock? part of me thinks it does nothing (which I have also read a lot on the older threads) but I tried to disable it recently and I am not sure if it did anything. Sometimes its #4 but other times it is #3 or #1. 1-3.7 degrees.

    2. For smoothing out a table does that mean the 3d chart is really symmetrical? meaning the lines are all linear horizontally and vertically. I have been playing with this during my first version and there were some really good changes I felt during city driving but I also found a way to mess my idle up cause it became lumpy and random rev hanging (which I later fixed due to changing DFCO) the tables I hand smoothed were: main spark, op spark, torque to load,and optimum torque. The only one I hand smoothed for this new version has been main spark so far.

    3. For my cold start and idle I know GMtech mentioned ~20 degrees for cold start is ideal for a happy LNF. Mine was around 15 today but slowly declined to around 9-10. As the engine warms up does the timing drop that much? For idle I do notice sometimes itll run as low as 3-5 degrees or sometimes even negative timing. Only thread I could find on that was MikeM.
    Prayers for your relatives. I'm finally coming around luckily. Apparently i had an underlying sickness kick in so i got dragged through 2 at the same time.
    1) I didn't notice it helping much.
    2) It depends on the table but what i mean is if you look at the 3D view and it has spikes all over it then you need to smooth it out. From one cell to another the transition should be smooth.
    3) It does decay as it warms up because everything expands and seals the cylinders up, making it more efficient. It takes some work to get it to behave.
    4) The tune you have is probably fine. Jumping back and forth between tunes just resets your progress. I stopped using the GMS1 file because i could make a better file by hand on initial flash. User preference i guess, but if you have a bunch of time in adjustments and want to make forward progress, then what you got now is likely the better file to keep moving from.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    Prayers for your relatives. I'm finally coming around luckily. Apparently i had an underlying sickness kick in so i got dragged through 2 at the same time.
    1) I didn't notice it helping much.
    2) It depends on the table but what i mean is if you look at the 3D view and it has spikes all over it then you need to smooth it out. From one cell to another the transition should be smooth.
    3) It does decay as it warms up because everything expands and seals the cylinders up, making it more efficient. It takes some work to get it to behave.
    4) The tune you have is probably fine. Jumping back and forth between tunes just resets your progress. I stopped using the GMS1 file because i could make a better file by hand on initial flash. User preference i guess, but if you have a bunch of time in adjustments and want to make forward progress, then what you got now is likely the better file to keep moving from.
    Good to hear man! Thank you for your replies. I have stuck with my file and make some more adjustments which I think helped. I had ~18 degrees for my cold start and idle wasn't as jumpy which was related to changing low load wgdc values. I also changed the warm up factor to always use the warm cam tables. I also took my first WOT pull since starting to toy around and I spiked around 22 psi if I use the absolute manifold pressure vs baro but if I use the low res pressure i saw 24-25 psi. Which is the best to use? Torque to load were in the 300s so I turned the highest to 280 and that was the result so I am gonna turn them down again to 255 and see how much that gives. Lambda held steady commanded which made me happy as I don't need to adjust the fuel for now.

    More questions!!

    1. Now that I am adjusting boost I know to use the torque to load however my wgdc tables is pretty much GMS1 with the last 4 cells 5k+ being increased smoothly to 100. If I keep torque to load high but turn down my wdgc what impact would that have vs keeping wgdc as high as it is and adjusting my torque to load?

    2. I added stock tip in retard values since the remote tuner zeroed it out. Would this be how I can control that false KR from the blip of the throttle?

    3. For adjusting the MAF i read people have over adjusted and really messed it up. How do I know when its perfectly done? I keep getting close but then the next log will show a bit of a change which I assume is why you guys suggest +-5 is good. I have left thhe MAF calibration alone but keep adjusting the maf correction.

    4. Component protection is causing my commanded to change a bit sometimes. I know if I was catless I could change the table to all 1s to disable but since I just have a high flow cat is it still recommended to add a bit of fuel when the temps get high? or is it personal preference since it would mean replacing them sooner?

    5. I know you said optimum torque table is the way to add finishing touches but I am overly excited to adjust it lol I see my WOT values are 99 so I assume not to make it 100 but if I slightly turn up each cell what kind of change can I expect? Similar to increasing torque per rpm?


    thanks again for all of your replies and help really appreciate it

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  4. #24
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    Adjust boost based on teh boost lo res (charge pipe t-map sensor)

    1) it tells the computer that the torque output is closer to 100% modeled output and the wastegate just adjusts pressure.
    2) It helps. I leave some in there to prevent tip in detonations. It doesnt really hurt performance and retains a level of safety. I dont know why everyone goes turning it off.
    3) The maf is split up into a frequency based calibration that is an exponential curve and a 2D correction factor. Tune the exponential curve smoothly while targeting that +/-5%. Once you get there move to the 2D correction factor table. It sounds like you did this already which is good. If you can drive around in just about any condition and the values stay within 5-8% then your pretty much done.
    4) Personal preference. You can burn a cat out from the heat so that hardware safety fueling event is up to you to leave on or disable. Typically i disable for a few dyno pulls to set the calibrations and then i turn it back on when im done. This way it doesnt effect the tuning of the base fuel.
    5) You will pick up some power when it matches the shape of your physical torque output. In the max load area, i always had mine at 99.99 or 100% from 3700rpm and up. Never saw enough change there to warrant spending more time searching for HP. I did spend plenty of time in the mid range to pick efficiency up when i did cam phase testing.
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  5. #25
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    Adjust boost based on teh boost lo res (charge pipe t-map sensor)

    1) it tells the computer that the torque output is closer to 100% modeled output and the wastegate just adjusts pressure.
    2) It helps. I leave some in there to prevent tip in detonations. It doesnt really hurt performance and retains a level of safety. I dont know why everyone goes turning it off.
    3) The maf is split up into a frequency based calibration that is an exponential curve and a 2D correction factor. Tune the exponential curve smoothly while targeting that +/-5%. Once you get there move to the 2D correction factor table. It sounds like you did this already which is good. If you can drive around in just about any condition and the values stay within 5-8% then your pretty much done.
    4) Personal preference. You can burn a cat out from the heat so that hardware safety fueling event is up to you to leave on or disable. Typically i disable for a few dyno pulls to set the calibrations and then i turn it back on when im done. This way it doesnt effect the tuning of the base fuel.
    5) You will pick up some power when it matches the shape of your physical torque output. In the max load area, i always had mine at 99.99 or 100% from 3700rpm and up. Never saw enough change there to warrant spending more time searching for HP. I did spend plenty of time in the mid range to pick efficiency up when i did cam phase testing.

    Thanks for replying ! So I have had a week to play with some things and what I found was I dialed in my fuel trims well but I think my MAF sensor is dirty so I need to clean it. I played with the optimum torque in the cruise areas and I feel like I need to learn more before I mess with it.

    Question:Would GMS1 with the MAF adjusted and some little tweaks be best for DD/overall reliability. I believe my original turbo is on the way out since I found out it has been boosting over 24-25psi since the intake manifold sensor maxes out at 37psi. I have been tuned as of early this year which is fine I wanted an excuse to upgrade but I do need my car for school and having it down while I wait for the turbo to come in will cause some issues. I have kept notes of what I changed on the file so I can always continue where I left off but for now I am thinking it'll be safer to run GMS1. What do you think?

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  6. #26
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    i ran teh GMS1 for a while and didnt have issues. If the turbo is going to die because its on the way out, no amount of tuning is going to save it. You may prolong it but expect it to die eventually. 18-19 psi should reduce the shaft load enough to still be a fun driver while extending its life farther than its current situation.
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  7. #27
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    i ran teh GMS1 for a while and didnt have issues. If the turbo is going to die because its on the way out, no amount of tuning is going to save it. You may prolong it but expect it to die eventually. 18-19 psi should reduce the shaft load enough to still be a fun driver while extending its life farther than its current situation.
    So you didn't tweak anything at all? Not even the MAF? Or did you make some changes over top of GMS1.

    Yes I am aware that the turbo situation cannot be saved which is why I want to at least turn it down to relieve some of the stress I have caused it from boosting much higher.

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  8. #28
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    So i got my TCSS right when they came out. I ran it oem and tuned LSJ stuff until the HPT software got a little up to speed. As soon as the GMS1 kit came out i jumped on that and ran it for about 3 months OEM. Once we found out there was more missing tables that cause boost reset, boost set to 23 psi by tuner would eventually learn back to a lower number like 17-18 psi, i started jumping in tuning my car. I really wanted to help figure out the boost learn issue so i was running a GMS1 with the maf dialed in. I ran 19 psi for about 1.5 years on a modified GMS1. When we got table access to what we have now i started running 24 psi for another year and blew 2 turbos. When i was on the second replacement, i started to do whatever i could with cams and injection learning. The idea was to help all the OG guys out with data support but i was a younger hotheaded a-hole at the time so that's probably not how it went down. Anyways...since then i never saw a reason to go back to the GMS1 because i knew from previous tuning experiences with cams and injection angles in play, that the GMS1 was inferior to any properly setup full tune from a reputable shop.

    To shorten it up. You shouldn't have any problem running the proper OEM file settings or a fuel improved GMS1 file.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    So i got my TCSS right when they came out. I ran it oem and tuned LSJ stuff until the HPT software got a little up to speed. As soon as the GMS1 kit came out i jumped on that and ran it for about 3 months OEM. Once we found out there was more missing tables that cause boost reset, boost set to 23 psi by tuner would eventually learn back to a lower number like 17-18 psi, i started jumping in tuning my car. I really wanted to help figure out the boost learn issue so i was running a GMS1 with the maf dialed in. I ran 19 psi for about 1.5 years on a modified GMS1. When we got table access to what we have now i started running 24 psi for another year and blew 2 turbos. When i was on the second replacement, i started to do whatever i could with cams and injection learning. The idea was to help all the OG guys out with data support but i was a younger hotheaded a-hole at the time so that's probably not how it went down. Anyways...since then i never saw a reason to go back to the GMS1 because i knew from previous tuning experiences with cams and injection angles in play, that the GMS1 was inferior to any properly setup full tune from a reputable shop.

    To shorten it up. You shouldn't have any problem running the proper OEM file settings or a fuel improved GMS1 file.
    That is good to know! Damn eh 24psi seems to be the killer amount lol fun but definitely makes the K04 die quickly. I was wondering because I will just throw on the GMS1 until I get a new turbo ordered. Then I'll get back to boosting it higher and see what new changes I can make with a new turbo.

    Ever tune a S257 or 6758?

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  10. #30
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Weird so I ran the GMS1 file and upon start up my car misfired like crazy. Felt pretty violent and saw the misfire count on 2 cyls increase 1 by 1 so within 15 seconds of it idling I shut it down. I reflashed my tune i've been working on and it started no problem. I realized the only thing I didn't copy over was the cat warm up was left disabled instead of the stock enabled. Would that be why? I am not wanting to go through that again lol so I am just gonna keep my tune and try to turn down the boost from 24 to around 19-20.

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  11. #31
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    could be but hard to know without trying it or seeing any files.
    I tuned a GT2876R, GT3076R, GT3782R, and an S366 i believe. My personal car had teh 3782R on it last but i fed it nitrous so its not like its a simple tune.
    I'm not sure i have the tunes anymore because they were stored on a dropbox account that i dont have anymore. I think i only uploaded stock turbo files to the repository. I didn't share any large turbo stuff.
    Last edited by cobaltssoverbooster; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:54 PM. Reason: spelling
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  12. #32
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Makes sense as I read about the surges you get with it disabled and since it was just the stock tune I am sure it didn't like the stock values with it disabled. Might give it another shot but now I am determined to continue to work on my own.

    Everything is looking good except for a weird idle. Cold start is great and so is driving but when I am sitting at idle sometimes the rpm jumps. Last revision I did seemed to make it a little less (added more to the torque to load for low load) but I am thinking it has to do with my OP spark. I am going to review cnbd and gmtechs threads again on it and see what I can do. It will hold 12-15 deg timing on the cold start but then it gets jumpy with timing fluctuating. I have been studying up on PID and really think I will play with that next along with more wgdc and torque to load. Have been leaving the Optimum Torque alone for now.

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  13. #33
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    CSSOB,

    Still active and holding down the LNF community. Good to see.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM173 View Post
    CSSOB,

    Still active and holding down the LNF community. Good to see.
    He's the man!



    Update:

    I ran the GMS1 with cat warmup enabled today to school and wow what a different drive that was. 1st off my tune is really bad for gas consumption because I think i've been adding too much performance wise and not really thinking overall driveabiltiy. Also feels like when I changed my cams to always run the warm and never the cold. I could also really play with the pedal to drive it smoothly however if I wanted response this wasn't as good as mine. With mine its like it wants to go anytime I step on the gas lol so I am thinking that has to do with my OP spark adjustments. Feels great but I would like to find a middle ground between the GMS1 and mine.

    Gonna drive with the GMS1 and then keep trying to mess around with my file. Was getting close until I had some idling issues that progressively got worse the more I tinkered. The last OP change I did started my idle at 9 degree advance and somehow it kept creeping up very slowly. I actually went to throw stuff out of my car and when I returned the advance was 19.5 degrees so I shut it down. Ideally I would like it to start at that and stay smooth instead of slowly creep up. Boost is still a little high but I didn't end up trying to finish as my idle has been my priority. Will take a little break for a bit while I catch up on some reading and do some well needed maintenance and pick up from there!

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  15. #35
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    Don?t make OP Spark adjustments until you know more about tuning the vehicle. Only make adjustments that match the adjustments you made to the spark. That?s the table that creates urgency. You can cause some stuff to happen that you don?t want to happen.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM173 View Post
    Don?t make OP Spark adjustments until you know more about tuning the vehicle. Only make adjustments that match the adjustments you made to the spark. That?s the table that creates urgency. You can cause some stuff to happen that you don?t want to happen.
    So upon reading GMTech, CNBD and yours I decided to try it out. I had a nasty misfire for my cold starts and usually my timing would retard so I wanted to see about adjusting the op spark to make my idle better. Before the last adjustment it sat around 14-15 advance which felt really good but had a slight jumpy idle which wasn't bad just I've been trying to work on that but now seeing the urgency changes I've made overall based on some old threads recommending me to try adding urgency to see what happens I will be adjusting that all back especially cause it killed my gas milage (or so I think) but by reverting back this is gonna affect my cold start which today using the GMS1 it had maybe 1-2 misfire hiccups but that's it. Again will be performing maintenance to see if there's something wrong.

    Really appreciate all of your guys replies ! Will try to work on it more tomorrow.

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  17. #37
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    Not saying don?t mess with OP Spark at all, it?s just a natural rule of thumb to not mess with it until you know more.

    I usually recommend running stock idle and learning everything else. You?ll hit a point where you just feel comfortable and attack it. It?s hard and very few have mastered it. Well, last I knew very few, but that was years ago. I?m a bit out of the game.

    Just be EXTREMELY careful with the OP Spark. It can be very dangerous.

  18. #38
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM173 View Post
    CSSOB,

    Still active and holding down the LNF community. Good to see.
    Good to see your still around as well brother!
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  19. #39
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    Yeah, still around. Not sure I remember everything about LNF?s like I used to, but I figured I?d at least come see what was going on. Glad you are still active. Sorry to hijack this thread, just two old tuner guys catching up lol.

    When tuning you have to learn the basics. You can learn that from these forums. From there I would recommend testing and talking with others about theories and other stuff. Keep in mind you have to know what to look for. One example: you might think your tube is not increasing performance because it has a slower 60-100 pull for instance. Well that can be for several reasons. Maybe it?s less performance. Maybe it?s too much power that your tires aren?t holding. Maybe the clutch can?t handle it. You can see these things in a log, so make sure you are logging the correct parameters and learning what to look for.

    Also, look for the not so common. What are your IAT temps after a pull? Is that good or bad? Does your intercooler do the job? Does it create a boost drop or is it working more efficiently that it appears its dropping boost as opposed to working not efficiently and dropping boost.

    There are so many factors to look at when tuning other than just the basics. Yes you can get by with the basics. And that?s fine, as that?s what most seem to care about. Just depends on how far you want to take your tuning. Good luck.

  20. #40
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    im right there with you. starting to loose my touch slowly over the last few years.
    you know its been a while when your original data server was run by companies that no longer exist and now that data is gone forever. haha.
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