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Thread: LNF tuning

  1. #1
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    LNF tuning

    Hey guys I am new to the forums and to tuning. I purchased a remote tune last year with HPTuners and my car has ran pretty well! I asked for a conservative tune and it definitely isn't anything aggressive. I have since made it a mission to research and learn how to do my own tuning for my car and have spent the past 3 weeks studying EFI tuning courses as well as numerous youtube channels. I have some knowledge of how things work now and some guidelines for the tables however I do have some questions. I know I am a bit late to the game however I am wanting to fine tune my cobalt to my own personal liking. Most of the threads are outdated so I do not want to bump them up after years of inactivity so I decided to make this thread. Yes I have read the infamous LNF bible thread thank you everyone who contributed to that.

    1st is using the 3d chart for tables (Main Spark, Optimum Torque and Torque to load) I noticed some tunes I have found posted here everyone's tables are smooth for the most part. Mine are smooth under WOT however not really touched under lighter loads. I have decided to massage some values to make the 3d chart smoother during low load. Changing those values slightly should have some positive affect to drive ability? Such as smoother transitioning? Also mine are slightly different as were the stock numbers so I have not copied 1 and made all 4 to match. Is this something still recommended to do or during each phase of the cams they should be slightly different? The WOT timing is relatively the same.

    2nd is tq mgt inj disable. I have read GMtech's thread and see mixed reviews with truly no right or wrong answer as a few guys share they use different settings:
    - Leaving stock values.
    - Zeroing out all but the last column leaving that as 15.
    - Zeroing out all columns.
    The mixed reviews I have read is: leaving stock or zeroing out all but leaving the last column as 15 enables DFCO which improves fuel economy and response to decelerating. Zeroing out all the columns decreases fuel economy due to AFR holding 14.7 vs cutting fuel however helps cool cylinders more? Is that a proven benefit to help the cylinders over noticing the improved fuel economy and response during decelerating? Or does it not really help that much nor is it worth sacrificing. The tune currently has it left stock which I do not mind leaving if that's best or if I should change to all zeros but the last column left 15?

    3rd is tip-in limiting if I have it enabled but most of the driver torque (50-80%) are 80-90% how much of a difference will I feel with that disabled? Do you guys enable it to save your trans? Is this that slight delay I feel when I hit the throttle from cruise to WOT? Will this affect boost?

    4th is how do I go about filtering out DFCO from my MAF graphs? Currently my MAF is around where it should be however I have seen spikes during DFCO that I would like to eliminate. Is there a way to set some logic such as: When Accel Pedal % = 0 then do not log the fuel trims?

    I will be trialing these changes and more but I just wanted to ask what you guys have seen since those older threads were made. First flash will be the smoothed out tables.

    USDM As Fck

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSmile View Post
    Hey guys I am new to the forums and to tuning. I purchased a remote tune last year with HPTuners and my car has ran pretty well! I asked for a conservative tune and it definitely isn't anything aggressive. I have since made it a mission to research and learn how to do my own tuning for my car and have spent the past 3 weeks studying EFI tuning courses as well as numerous youtube channels. I have some knowledge of how things work now and some guidelines for the tables however I do have some questions. I know I am a bit late to the game however I am wanting to fine tune my cobalt to my own personal liking. Most of the threads are outdated so I do not want to bump them up after years of inactivity so I decided to make this thread. Yes I have read the infamous LNF bible thread thank you everyone who contributed to that.

    1st is using the 3d chart for tables (Main Spark, Optimum Torque and Torque to load) I noticed some tunes I have found posted here everyone's tables are smooth for the most part. Mine are smooth under WOT however not really touched under lighter loads. I have decided to massage some values to make the 3d chart smoother during low load. Changing those values slightly should have some positive affect to drive ability? Such as smoother transitioning? Also mine are slightly different as were the stock numbers so I have not copied 1 and made all 4 to match. Is this something still recommended to do or during each phase of the cams they should be slightly different? The WOT timing is relatively the same.

    2nd is tq mgt inj disable. I have read GMtech's thread and see mixed reviews with truly no right or wrong answer as a few guys share they use different settings:
    - Leaving stock values.
    - Zeroing out all but the last column leaving that as 15.
    - Zeroing out all columns.
    The mixed reviews I have read is: leaving stock or zeroing out all but leaving the last column as 15 enables DFCO which improves fuel economy and response to decelerating. Zeroing out all the columns decreases fuel economy due to AFR holding 14.7 vs cutting fuel however helps cool cylinders more? Is that a proven benefit to help the cylinders over noticing the improved fuel economy and response during decelerating? Or does it not really help that much nor is it worth sacrificing. The tune currently has it left stock which I do not mind leaving if that's best or if I should change to all zeros but the last column left 15?

    3rd is tip-in limiting if I have it enabled but most of the driver torque (50-80%) are 80-90% how much of a difference will I feel with that disabled? Do you guys enable it to save your trans? Is this that slight delay I feel when I hit the throttle from cruise to WOT? Will this affect boost?

    4th is how do I go about filtering out DFCO from my MAF graphs? Currently my MAF is around where it should be however I have seen spikes during DFCO that I would like to eliminate. Is there a way to set some logic such as: When Accel Pedal % = 0 then do not log the fuel trims?

    I will be trialing these changes and more but I just wanted to ask what you guys have seen since those older threads were made. First flash will be the smoothed out tables.
    Let me start by saying that tuning your own car is a great experience! You get to see what small and large changes can do to your car. I am no master by any means but let me try to answer your questions as best as I can.

    1. I dial in my MAF then work on the spark tables. I have my spark tables smooth across the whole table and adjust them as needed. Then I go and adjust my optimum spark after. Then drive and see how it feels logging the MAF error. And dial it in again until i'm within 1% plus or minus. There are some great youtube videos that show how to do this.

    2. I have my tables all zero except the last one that is at 15 to allow for DFCO. If you don't want that you can 0 them out. Sacrifice some mpg but you can get some pops if your exhaust allows.

    3. Ive had my tip in limited on and off and personally I could not tell the difference. If you want to save your trans ramp the boost appropriately and use the torque by gear table and reduce those to help with launches and trans health.

    4. I would have to see a datalog or to see what you are talking about.
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  3. #3
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_cheese View Post
    Let me start by saying that tuning your own car is a great experience! You get to see what small and large changes can do to your car. I am no master by any means but let me try to answer your questions as best as I can.

    1. I dial in my MAF then work on the spark tables. I have my spark tables smooth across the whole table and adjust them as needed. Then I go and adjust my optimum spark after. Then drive and see how it feels logging the MAF error. And dial it in again until i'm within 1% plus or minus. There are some great youtube videos that show how to do this.

    2. I have my tables all zero except the last one that is at 15 to allow for DFCO. If you don't want that you can 0 them out. Sacrifice some mpg but you can get some pops if your exhaust allows.

    3. Ive had my tip in limited on and off and personally I could not tell the difference. If you want to save your trans ramp the boost appropriately and use the torque by gear table and reduce those to help with launches and trans health.

    4. I would have to see a datalog or to see what you are talking about.
    Thank you for your reply!

    1. Do you have all 4 tables the same for main spark?

    2. Have you tried stock values vs your zeroing out with last column with 15s?

    4. Basically when I decelerate my AFR goes to 29.2 which is still being logged by my MAF graphs. How do I filter that out when I am decelerating so I can have more accurate values? Or is it recommended to dial in the MAF by disabling DFCO at the start?

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSmile View Post
    Thank you for your reply!

    1. Do you have all 4 tables the same for main spark?

    2. Have you tried stock values vs your zeroing out with last column with 15s?

    4. Basically when I decelerate my AFR goes to 29.2 which is still being logged by my MAF graphs. How do I filter that out when I am decelerating so I can have more accurate values? Or is it recommended to dial in the MAF by disabling DFCO at the start?
    No problem! See below for respective answers!

    1. I do have my 4 spark tables the same and then fixed my opt spark tables as well. I'll be happy to take a look at your tune if you want.

    2. I have as well. Again no major changes.. If you leave the values as stock the DFCO will turn off the cylinders in a predetermined order. I haven't seen it make a difference actually.

    3. I would suggest dialing in the MAF as you typically drive the vehicle. So yes you can shut off the DFCO to adjust the MAF. Also what you can do is disconnect the purge valve and dial in your MAF that way so you can adjust for when the vapors and such are also sent into the engine.
    2015 Silverado 6.2 - Intake, Exhaust, E85
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    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Awesome so having the 4 spark tables the same is recommended regardless of the intake exhaust min/max. That sounds good my next revision was going to be trying the zeroed out but last column as 15s to see the changes but if there really isn't a difference I may just leave that alone since it works fine as is.

    So my MAF has been adjusted a few times by the remote tuner and it does stay at or close to commanded lambda but I know there are some tweaks that can be done. So I should shut DFCO off (or is there a way to filter it out on the scanner so I can leave it active) and then disconnect the purge valve (does this do anything mechanically to the car?) and I believe the tutorial said: STFT + LTFT x maf freq and x maf corr on the graph and do multiply by half % with the values that populate in the graph? Is there a way to do it with using VE airflow vs MAF in lb/min with the scanner?

    A few new questions as well:

    1. For your scanner does your graphs match the tables x & y axis? If so to show LTFT and STFT what does yours look like? I have the above mentioned LTFT + STFT x maf freq and x maf corr.

    2. My idle is decently smooth since I adjusted the base idle speed but for timing sake is that to do with main spark tables?

    3. Optimal timing in the main spark is that found by using the scanner graph data that logged the average spark advance?


    Again thank you for your replies and help!

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  6. #6
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    The computer interpolates between the 4 ignition tables depending on the camshaft positions. Making them all the same reduces the freedom and helps you target what you command.
    Answers:
    1) Your scanner histograms should always match the table axis in your editor. If they don't then you will have to manually interpolate the data and the copy and paste method we use will not work for you.
    2) LNF idle quality will be best when the air load and ignition tables allow a lower ETC reading. Its been forever but i vaguely remember my ETC% was in the high 3 to low 4% range. I also moved my cams for best fuel economy so my target numbers may be different than others.
    3) Optimum torque is found using a loaded dyno typically. If you don't have one then you can make changes based on the behavior of the torque modeling system. It's not easy to explain, and in fact i remember there being a whole thread about this topic. It's on the advanced side because of how it interacts with many other tables. You can make these all match each other like the main spark to start. Past that i suggest getting really comfortable with the rest of the ecu before working on these values. Getting carried away with changes here can cause some really odd behaviors. Not all of which are considered "safe".

    With the latest software you will see a few table names have changed both in location and name from the older version the rest of us started on. This is probably where you should start reading. https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ight=lnf+bible
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    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    The computer interpolates between the 4 ignition tables depending on the camshaft positions. Making them all the same reduces the freedom and helps you target what you command.
    Answers:
    1) Your scanner histograms should always match the table axis in your editor. If they don't then you will have to manually interpolate the data and the copy and paste method we use will not work for you.
    2) LNF idle quality will be best when the air load and ignition tables allow a lower ETC reading. Its been forever but i vaguely remember my ETC% was in the high 3 to low 4% range. I also moved my cams for best fuel economy so my target numbers may be different than others.
    3) Optimum torque is found using a loaded dyno typically. If you don't have one then you can make changes based on the behavior of the torque modeling system. It's not easy to explain, and in fact i remember there being a whole thread about this topic. It's on the advanced side because of how it interacts with many other tables. You can make these all match each other like the main spark to start. Past that i suggest getting really comfortable with the rest of the ecu before working on these values. Getting carried away with changes here can cause some really odd behaviors. Not all of which are considered "safe".

    With the latest software you will see a few table names have changed both in location and name from the older version the rest of us started on. This is probably where you should start reading. https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ight=lnf+bible
    Thank you for clarifying that part and explaining the rest! I have read the LNF bible thread numerous times I have had to figure out the parameters for the newer version compared to the ones posted. Also a lot of picture examples are no longer working on those links so some are hard to follow since the text isn't very descriptive.

    My question about optimum torque was related to the main spark tables. Lets say my timing is set to 12 degrees on WOT is there a way to use the scanner to know if there is a better timing value to set using the average spark advance graphs?

    For ETC% are you referring to the Throttle Position %? What parameter would be responsible for adjusting that? Or do you mean ECT Spark Advance Correction?

    I have set my main spark tables to match and will be trying out the zeroed out column with last values left at 15. I will be adjusting my MAF the next time I head out by disconnecting my evap purge valve. For the base corrections how would I go about editing those? Fuel, IAT, and ECT. Also for smoothing out the main spark tables do I want my 3d chart view to be as smooth as possible? My WOT section is however my lower load is a bit jacked. The stock file looks pretty jacked up too.

    I still need to learn more about injectors (I understand port injection and the basic fundamentals of direct injection) but looking to further my knowledge. Same with the cams and VVT. That is where my research will continue.

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  8. #8
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSmile View Post
    Thank you for clarifying that part and explaining the rest! I have read the LNF bible thread numerous times I have had to figure out the parameters for the newer version compared to the ones posted. Also a lot of picture examples are no longer working on those links so some are hard to follow since the text isn't very descriptive.

    My question about optimum torque was related to the main spark tables. Lets say my timing is set to 12 degrees on WOT is there a way to use the scanner to know if there is a better timing value to set using the average spark advance graphs?

    For ETC% are you referring to the Throttle Position %? What parameter would be responsible for adjusting that? Or do you mean ECT Spark Advance Correction?

    I have set my main spark tables to match and will be trying out the zeroed out column with last values left at 15. I will be adjusting my MAF the next time I head out by disconnecting my evap purge valve. For the base corrections how would I go about editing those? Fuel, IAT, and ECT. Also for smoothing out the main spark tables do I want my 3d chart view to be as smooth as possible? My WOT section is however my lower load is a bit jacked. The stock file looks pretty jacked up too.

    I still need to learn more about injectors (I understand port injection and the basic fundamentals of direct injection) but looking to further my knowledge. Same with the cams and VVT. That is where my research will continue.
    Old file share systems like Photobucket got greedy and caused issues with shared information. Broken image links are unfortunate as they are not typically recoverable. Wish that wasn't the case.

    The ignition question, your second line, I'm sorry but i don't think i understand your question. I will take a shot at what i think your asking though.
    If you are wondering how we find the best main spark ignition value by only using logs, then i think i got you. So when you record your histograms for ignition advance you make the histogram match the rpm and load axis found in the editor for main spark and plot actual ignition advance in the middle. This lets you see if you are in fact getting what you command. Well if you duplicate these tables, you can remove the ignition advance pid from the plotting parameter and instead use knock retard degrees to plot. Old school testing we would increase the ignition until we saw active knock detection record the last highest ignition value that did not see knock. Your not done here though as environmental changes make this a dangerous spot to be right on the edge of knock. From this point we used to pull an additional degree of ignition advance out to reduce peak cylinder pressure. Depending on the intended use, i would occasionally pull more than one for longevity. All of this is tuner preference and you should be watching for all the signs of too much advance. If you aren't familiar yet, i suggest you study up on the art of reading spark plugs. Unless you want to get fancy, it doesn't cost you any more than having a few sets of spare plugs on hand.

    ETC% was the PID we used in the past to monitor throttle blade position (Electronic Throttle Control). TPS% only measured the pedal. For the ETC%, these ECUs don't have a user command to target position, but by playing with the airflow model, you can get it to command different ETC positions. Airload and Ignition play pretty big in ETC position but cam angle has mechanical effect on airload so if you change cam position you should be revisiting airload command. The airload demand table used to be called "Desired Airload". Now i believe it's called "Torque to Load" and found in the Torque Model tab.

    I tell everyone to keep their tables as smooth as possible. You can use the auto smooth features to smooth a region, horizontal, or vertical. I use the features for initial setup and then when i approach my final numbers, I switch to manually adjusting the 3D view by dragging pick points around. Just try some smoothing out and you will find your own groove here. Stock files aren't the smoothest but they offer a great starting point.

    Fuel, IAT and ECT are adders to the main spark. You really need some dyno time to sort them out but if your in one of those areas that doesn't have one, well you can command specific lambda targets and make adjustments based on knock detection. In the end I was doing so much fuel and PID changes I didn't desire my timing to wander and shut these features off except for the extreme conditions where I left some values in as mechanical protection insurance.

    DI is pretty awesome tech. I got sucked in pretty hard once I got into injection angles, spray durations, pressures, and driver circuits. I like seeing users doing R&D type testing to teach themselves and others about the injection system.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  9. #9
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    Old file share systems like Photobucket got greedy and caused issues with shared information. Broken image links are unfortunate as they are not typically recoverable. Wish that wasn't the case.

    The ignition question, your second line, I'm sorry but i don't think i understand your question. I will take a shot at what i think your asking though.
    If you are wondering how we find the best main spark ignition value by only using logs, then i think i got you. So when you record your histograms for ignition advance you make the histogram match the rpm and load axis found in the editor for main spark and plot actual ignition advance in the middle. This lets you see if you are in fact getting what you command. Well if you duplicate these tables, you can remove the ignition advance pid from the plotting parameter and instead use knock retard degrees to plot. Old school testing we would increase the ignition until we saw active knock detection record the last highest ignition value that did not see knock. Your not done here though as environmental changes make this a dangerous spot to be right on the edge of knock. From this point we used to pull an additional degree of ignition advance out to reduce peak cylinder pressure. Depending on the intended use, i would occasionally pull more than one for longevity. All of this is tuner preference and you should be watching for all the signs of too much advance. If you aren't familiar yet, i suggest you study up on the art of reading spark plugs. Unless you want to get fancy, it doesn't cost you any more than having a few sets of spare plugs on hand.

    ETC% was the PID we used in the past to monitor throttle blade position (Electronic Throttle Control). TPS% only measured the pedal. For the ETC%, these ECUs don't have a user command to target position, but by playing with the airflow model, you can get it to command different ETC positions. Airload and Ignition play pretty big in ETC position but cam angle has mechanical effect on airload so if you change cam position you should be revisiting airload command. The airload demand table used to be called "Desired Airload". Now i believe it's called "Torque to Load" and found in the Torque Model tab.

    I tell everyone to keep their tables as smooth as possible. You can use the auto smooth features to smooth a region, horizontal, or vertical. I use the features for initial setup and then when i approach my final numbers, I switch to manually adjusting the 3D view by dragging pick points around. Just try some smoothing out and you will find your own groove here. Stock files aren't the smoothest but they offer a great starting point.

    Fuel, IAT and ECT are adders to the main spark. You really need some dyno time to sort them out but if your in one of those areas that doesn't have one, well you can command specific lambda targets and make adjustments based on knock detection. In the end I was doing so much fuel and PID changes I didn't desire my timing to wander and shut these features off except for the extreme conditions where I left some values in as mechanical protection insurance.

    DI is pretty awesome tech. I got sucked in pretty hard once I got into injection angles, spray durations, pressures, and driver circuits. I like seeing users doing R&D type testing to teach themselves and others about the injection system.
    Really appreciate you replying to my thread! If you don't mind I have a lot of questions! I also want to thank you for telling me to re read that LNF Bible thread as everytime I have found something new and interesting.

    Yeah it is brutal I know some threads evolved around the picture being posted because itll talk about the values used and we will never know what they were. However there is so much info in the threads I am sure I can easily make do.

    Yes that was exactly my question but after reading the optimum spark threads that made me think that I am really not far off GMS1 tables so instead of turning up the timing I want to make the car really smooth as is and then fine tweak the advance. The method you posted sounds good and I will have access to a dyno this summer so I hope to have a good base that can be edited there.

    Gotcha makes sense why I cannot find it lol so using the throttle PID is now the one.

    Ok funny you say that because I just finished reading GMtech/bill doe threads about how the OS tables work as urgency and having those smoothed out in the right areas can help fix a lot of problems as well as perfecting cold starts, idles etc.

    So should my steps should be:

    1. hand smooth my main spark tables and copy to all 4
    *is there a way to rotate the 3d chart?*
    ** with that method of making out timing until knock comes what about cruising? I see some values of timing 40s and up so how do I know what is too much there vs WOT its easier since those values are less and show up quicker?**
    2. Paste special subtract into my MBT spark tables (OS) to find the current "urgency"
    3. Smooth out the urgency based on the load and rpm
    *I know people mentioned to experiment with making a difference of 5 to start and see how it reacts but this brings me to @*
    4. Paste special add the main spark back into MBT
    *if this will affect how my boost reacts i should turn down my torque to load and wgdc?*
    ** should all 4 be the same as well?**
    5. Calibrate MAF frequency and correction tables

    @ i want to try it out but after reading GMTechs thread about having throttle stay open or other things can arise and never being able to see some of the values he used since every single picture he uploaded was on photobucket lol I did not want to touch it. Is there any guidelines for values in certain areas or any examples you could post that could steer me into the right direction? I have all spring and summer to work on this tune while I go to school.

    Right now my car runs ok I need to dial in my MAF more since I have noticed it isn't steady at commanded lambda. My cold starts definitely can use some work. Could that be related to my MAF? I am going to be disconnecting the evap purge valve for my next drive. My last request or question for now would be related to the scanner. I have spent some time setting up custom PID and making a nice chart and histograms but seeing my logs I notice little things however I feel like there is more to learn. What do you recommend I do to get better with the scanner?

    Sorry for this being so long I am glad to have replies and I am learning a lot so thanks again.

  10. #10
    Advanced Tuner 383_Stroker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSmile View Post
    *is there a way to rotate the 3d chart?*
    Right Click and Drag

  11. #11
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 383_Stroker View Post
    Right Click and Drag

    Wow! I blindly tried keyboard shortcuts lol cause I am using a track pad thank you for your reply.

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  12. #12
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    1. hand smooth my main spark tables and copy to all 4
    *is there a way to rotate the 3d chart?* See above users Posts.
    ** with that method of making out timing until knock comes what about cruising? I see some values of timing 40s and up so how do I know what is too much there vs WOT its easier since those values are less and show up quicker?** It will detonate anywhere if you throw it too much timing. You can use the method for the whole table minus the idle and deceleration zones. Idle should be calibrated to stabilize the idle and decel i typically leave stock because it's good enough and doesn't affect my cruise or wot performance.
    2. Paste special subtract into my MBT spark tables (OS) to find the current "urgency" I typically leave Optimum Spark stock, adjust my main spark tables to what i am looking for and then copy them into the optimum spark tables. I then add about +5 to 8 to the entire optimum spark table to request some urgency. When you drive this number up really high, that is when you start to see some funky numbers.
    3. Smooth out the urgency based on the load and rpm
    *I know people mentioned to experiment with making a difference of 5 to start and see how it reacts but this brings me to @* See above #2
    4. Paste special add the main spark back into MBT See above #2
    *if this will affect how my boost reacts i should turn down my torque to load and wgdc?*
    ** should all 4 be the same as well?** We refer to the difference between main spark and optimum spark as an urgency request most of the time. This can affect throttle blade response which can have an effect on boost, but most of your boost control performance comes from the wastegate PID controls.
    5. Calibrate MAF frequency and correction tables Priority #1 right here. Ignition priority is #2. Due to the way fuel is directly injected into the cylinder, being way off from an optimal fueling range is going to have an negative effect on ignition settings. I tend to adjust for target boost at the same time i work my fueling out. Kind of a back and forth game. Then i move to ignition.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  13. #13
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Awesome thank you so much for your helpful replies! I will be up all night before a long day of driving tomorrow so I will be putting together my tune and will begin to adjust the MAF first tomorrow.

    Also when I mentioned in question 4 was should all 4 MBT tables be the same since the main spark has been recommended to be the same?

    I found some more helpful threads that aren't listed in the main lnf Bible I was thinking of contributing once I get my tune sorted by providing an updated parameter list so people know what is what if they're tuning nowadays and will add every link I've found from all the OGs such as yourself. Thanks again for replying I really appreciate it.

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  14. #14
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    you can make them all the same.
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  15. #15
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Update!

    Ran my 1st edited file since getting a remote tune done and noticed A LOT. First off I've had a dreadful cold start since getting tuned. Spark was usually negative or a very low single digit value. I was able to increase it so it hovered around 6-9 degrees. At times it did drop to 3 degrees and it was unstable (had a slight jumpy idle) but definitely no issues like before (sounded rough, sometimes sounded/felt like it might stall, noticed random misfire counts) I noticed since my idle rpm is set to around 1k that the 20% load cell is where it sat mostly but I am trying to learn why the timing still jumped around. I know I gave more urgency in the optimum spark tables in that cell but I assume it will be playing around with the urgency values.

    MAF tuning is going ok it is still randomly jumping around lean (not as much rich) which I assume just takes time. I forgot I filled up with 94 last since I was gonna see if that would help my KR issue before but I was wanting to tune my MAF for 91. Since it is technically being adjusted for 94 values will I now have to retune when I fill up with 91? Or can I dial in my maf freq and corr to 94 and then just tweak it slightly for 91 when the time comes?

    Noticed a bit of rev hanging when normally once I let off the gas the RPM would react a bit quicker. I did change the DFCO settings to all zeros and the last column with 15s but all the threads I read mentioned it would happen with all zeros. Or could it be with the optimum spark table needing adjustment?

    Had to do 4 separate logs as each trip took a certain part of time to complete so I only adjusted the MAF but for 3/4 there was no KR while the time there was I was letting off the throttle as KR appeared (3 degrees went to 0) my spark retarded to negative and then advanced as I returned on the throttle which made KR appear again (1.5 which then went to 0.7 and 0) then I let off gas again and returned and then it showed 0.7 for a second and then disappear. (All on Cyl 3) but all I changed were my main spark (made the table smoother) and then adjusted my urgency in my optimum spark to all positive numbers as low as 1 and as high as 27.

    I will attach my longest last log below if you guys want to point things out. I am still learning how to read the scanner data and figure out what is good and what is bad so anything you guys find that I haven't mentioned above would be greatly appreciated!! Also looking for any advice to tweak my tune I am still learning so please don't share the value but explain what I could be doing better or the area to look into for whatever.

    Edit: Added my cold start log.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by SSmile; 04-28-2021 at 02:44 AM.

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  16. #16
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    2nd Update!

    So I made some tweaks and headed back out today. Wow I think I am starting to get the hang of some of the tables and noticing what changes I am making how it is affecting the car. I was able to bump up my cold start idle from 6-9 with a low dip of 3 degrees to 9-13 with some random 8 degree dips. I will be focusing on my idles shortly I am still dialing in the MAF and other things which I think is going well! Before my lambda would jump from 1.0 to mid 1.1's and run rich to high .8's and now I see it sit 1.0 sometimes jumping 1.02 and .98 with some dips still leaner and richer so that will continue to be dialed in. I will keep filling up with 94 unless you guys think it wont run much different with 91 (I did not advance any timing since updating my tables so I don't think it will knock but I am not sure and all I usually ran were 91 with the remote tune) Also reverting the DFCO settings to stock helped with the rev hang and also going into DFCO. I did notice my fuel pressure sometimes ran higher than commanded so not sure if that is a problem or not.

    Really pleased with the progress and will continue to work at this! I will include todays logs below and as always PLEASE let me know anything I cannot see as I am still learning and really appreciate all the help I can get.

    Apr28v4idleDD.hpl
    Apr28v4DDhome.hpl
    Last edited by SSmile; 04-28-2021 at 05:55 PM.

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  17. #17
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    you dont need to change the injector disable table to only 15's in the right column. This was an old test to get around lack of features and table understandings. just leave it stock. If you run 91 or 94, you wont have to make a tune for each to correct fuel. If you want max timing well yeah, the 94 tune will allow slightly more ignition than 91. Otherwise the big player for fuel offsets is ethanol content. We can talk about it if you decide to try that in the future.

    The LNF is known for tip in knock. The Solstice floating clutch also causes a ton of KR related issues. Tip in is defined as a detonation event caused by abrupt cylinder pressure change, typically caused by moving the throttle aggressively. If your familiar with high level Calculus you know all about time zero analysis. Tip in is the related to the event caused by moving the accelerator position to a new position from any point in time you call time zero. If at time zero you went from 30% tps to 50% tps, the effect caused by this move would be a tip in effect. Lots of tables have to be just right to eliminate it completely. You will struggle but learn tons from trying to eliminate it. Don't let this get you down.

    Setup a baseline table for optimum spark. Copy a main spark table. Paste it into one of the optimum spark tables. Select all of the cells in the new optimum spark table. At the top of the table there is an empty white box with math symbols to the left of it. Enter a 5 in the white box and select the plus icon. Every value will now be 5 units larger. Copy this data and paste it into the remaining optimum spark tables. Leave this alone until you sort out the fuel, boost, and ignition. The urgency can cause issues that mask effects of changes in other tables. The scientific method tells us to change one thing and see what happens as a result. Right now your changing 5 things and this makes it impossible to really see which value change is causing the behavior changes you feel or record with the logger.

    Let's lay this out in a way to maximize your learning.

    1) Main ignition table. Whatever it is at now, stock or stock smoothed, just leave it alone. Do the above correction to the optimum spark and then leave that alone as well.
    2) Focus strictly on calibration of the MAF. Make sure your trims report ?5-8%. Keep the table smooth. After the maf curve is calibrated do the same to the maf 2D base.
    3) Now play with the airload demand table and request a little bit of boost in the high load columns. If suggest a target of 20 psi for training and longevity. I read the boost in kpa so that would be roughly 240 kpa on the boost sensor. This is a health spot for a OEM KO4 turbocharger. Once you creep towards 23 psi you start to loose longevity. I ran mine non-stop at 23-24 psi and it turned my turbo into a scheduled replacement item. If you can afford that then cool. You are the tuner here so target larger values at your own risk.
    3.1) You just requested more air, so that means your maf cals are going to be effected. While you increase airload, make sure you are revisiting step 2 and keeping that fuel in check. Target PE under boost will be .86-.87 lambda for great starting point.
    4) Once you get the boost settled along with the fuel, start to add 1 degree of ignition, per test, into your advance table. Monitor for knock activity on every test. If you make an increase and see knock activity in a cell show up, remove 1.5* and try again. It should be gone, if not remove a little more until it's gone. Keep the ignition map smooth just like the fuel tables before. If you have a low cell surrounded by higher cells, blend the higher ones into the low cell and see if the low cell recovers some.
    5) Play with the airload around the idle and midrange areas. You can see how it affects your throttle response. It will also affect your idle stability. Knowing now what you have learned in the prior steps, use what you know to stabilize the idle and modify the behavior in the mid range to get your desired pedal response feeling. Don't drive the airload up to high in the midrange or you can start boosting in cruise.
    6) Now play with the cam positions. Again, this will change the cylinder pressure and dynamic airflow so it's going to affect all the prior changes, but its no big deal for you now because you already know how to fix it.
    7) Finally, i would play with torque demand settings. Take it easy here. Big changes can really unsettle things. At this point it will be easier to understand how this affects performance. The stuff mentioned prior is like 90-95% of your tune. Torque demand just polishes it up.
    8) If you plan on going big turbo, spend some time at the end learning about the wastegate PID settings. These settings will make or break a large turbo setup. Easier and safer to learn the effects on the OEM turbo while you still have it.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  18. #18
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    you dont need to change the injector disable table to only 15's in the right column. This was an old test to get around lack of features and table understandings. just leave it stock. If you run 91 or 94, you wont have to make a tune for each to correct fuel. If you want max timing well yeah, the 94 tune will allow slightly more ignition than 91. Otherwise the big player for fuel offsets is ethanol content. We can talk about it if you decide to try that in the future.

    The LNF is known for tip in knock. The Solstice floating clutch also causes a ton of KR related issues. Tip in is defined as a detonation event caused by abrupt cylinder pressure change, typically caused by moving the throttle aggressively. If your familiar with high level Calculus you know all about time zero analysis. Tip in is the related to the event caused by moving the accelerator position to a new position from any point in time you call time zero. If at time zero you went from 30% tps to 50% tps, the effect caused by this move would be a tip in effect. Lots of tables have to be just right to eliminate it completely. You will struggle but learn tons from trying to eliminate it. Don't let this get you down.

    Setup a baseline table for optimum spark. Copy a main spark table. Paste it into one of the optimum spark tables. Select all of the cells in the new optimum spark table. At the top of the table there is an empty white box with math symbols to the left of it. Enter a 5 in the white box and select the plus icon. Every value will now be 5 units larger. Copy this data and paste it into the remaining optimum spark tables. Leave this alone until you sort out the fuel, boost, and ignition. The urgency can cause issues that mask effects of changes in other tables. The scientific method tells us to change one thing and see what happens as a result. Right now your changing 5 things and this makes it impossible to really see which value change is causing the behavior changes you feel or record with the logger.

    Let's lay this out in a way to maximize your learning.

    1) Main ignition table. Whatever it is at now, stock or stock smoothed, just leave it alone. Do the above correction to the optimum spark and then leave that alone as well.
    2) Focus strictly on calibration of the MAF. Make sure your trims report ?5-8%. Keep the table smooth. After the maf curve is calibrated do the same to the maf 2D base.
    3) Now play with the airload demand table and request a little bit of boost in the high load columns. If suggest a target of 20 psi for training and longevity. I read the boost in kpa so that would be roughly 240 kpa on the boost sensor. This is a health spot for a OEM KO4 turbocharger. Once you creep towards 23 psi you start to loose longevity. I ran mine non-stop at 23-24 psi and it turned my turbo into a scheduled replacement item. If you can afford that then cool. You are the tuner here so target larger values at your own risk.
    3.1) You just requested more air, so that means your maf cals are going to be effected. While you increase airload, make sure you are revisiting step 2 and keeping that fuel in check. Target PE under boost will be .86-.87 lambda for great starting point.
    4) Once you get the boost settled along with the fuel, start to add 1 degree of ignition, per test, into your advance table. Monitor for knock activity on every test. If you make an increase and see knock activity in a cell show up, remove 1.5* and try again. It should be gone, if not remove a little more until it's gone. Keep the ignition map smooth just like the fuel tables before. If you have a low cell surrounded by higher cells, blend the higher ones into the low cell and see if the low cell recovers some.
    5) Play with the airload around the idle and midrange areas. You can see how it affects your throttle response. It will also affect your idle stability. Knowing now what you have learned in the prior steps, use what you know to stabilize the idle and modify the behavior in the mid range to get your desired pedal response feeling. Don't drive the airload up to high in the midrange or you can start boosting in cruise.
    6) Now play with the cam positions. Again, this will change the cylinder pressure and dynamic airflow so it's going to affect all the prior changes, but its no big deal for you now because you already know how to fix it.
    7) Finally, i would play with torque demand settings. Take it easy here. Big changes can really unsettle things. At this point it will be easier to understand how this affects performance. The stuff mentioned prior is like 90-95% of your tune. Torque demand just polishes it up.
    8) If you plan on going big turbo, spend some time at the end learning about the wastegate PID settings. These settings will make or break a large turbo setup. Easier and safer to learn the effects on the OEM turbo while you still have it.
    Sadly no e stations in canada so it would be ordering through a raceshop or something which is probably not worth.

    Sounds good I like a challenge! I noticed from changing the OP spark and Main spark that it changed slightly how KR appeared. I see some tunes utilize burst tip in knock while i read some threads that say to zero it out will it be playing wit that along with the torque to load (DALs)?

    So I agree with what you're saying with making too many changes at once. I am getting too excited wanting to make mass changes. My fuel trims are +- 5% right now with most cells being +- 1 so theyre definitely getting close. Finally threw a CEL for the evap purge valve being unplugged.

    Thank you so much for laying down those steps. It seems like I have disregarded how important the torque to load table would be especially to help with idle and such. That will be what I focus on next as I want to leave all spark alone for now. I will add tonights log which I changed some tables back since the last change felt a bit worse in some areas. Are you able to review some of my logs? I noticed when I did a partial WOT for tonight my lambda went from DFCO 1.99 to .77 really quickly then hit the commanded. That quick spike is that technically a miss read from the sensor since it jumps back up so quickly or is that where I need to fix that rich issue? And for Throttle Position % I notice it maxes at 83.1% however my pedal can be reading 50% or more so does that mean at 50% pedal I am wide open throttle?
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by SSmile; 04-29-2021 at 07:24 PM.

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  19. #19
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    3rd Update!

    After taking CSSOB's recommendation I have created a base that I can tweak as I progress through the tune. 1st thing I noticed was there wasn't some of the issues I was having before and didn't know what from (I suspect OP tables)

    My cold start is much better! No misfires and sounds a lot better. The idle is still a bit jumpy but not nearly as much or as noticeable.

    Steady state cruising feels closer to GMS1 stock since I reverted my changes. I smoothed it out a bit but I know I will have to play with some things. Next will be adjusting part and wide open throttle.

    My fuel trims are really solid! I think the difference was +-3 and the short log I took today to grab groceries was literally 0 lol. Fluctuates .02 lambda lean or rich which is normal I think? or is it supposed to sit at 1.0.

    Now to start tweaking it a bit more!! Anymore recommendations? haha

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  20. #20
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    Sorry I haven't replied. I'm not as active as i was in the past and after receiving the second vaccine recently, I've been fighting to get back to normal.
    It sounds like you are making great progress. 3% with a smooth table is a great result.
    Reminder, when you post your logs, post the tune file you had in the ecu when you generated the logs. Then and only then, can anyone else really decipher exactly how your tune is behaving. Keep up the good work otherwise.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman