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Thread: LNF tuning

  1. #21
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    Sorry I haven't replied. I'm not as active as i was in the past and after receiving the second vaccine recently, I've been fighting to get back to normal.
    It sounds like you are making great progress. 3% with a smooth table is a great result.
    Reminder, when you post your logs, post the tune file you had in the ecu when you generated the logs. Then and only then, can anyone else really decipher exactly how your tune is behaving. Keep up the good work otherwise.
    That is ok! Hope you feel better soon! Sadly my fiances step dad was (and still is) hospitalized from receiving his dose.

    I think I am getting the hang of it now. Every change I do, I can feel and see what it is doing when before there would be lots of good changes and some bad and then I'd have no idea if it was from OP changes or other.

    I have never ran stock vs GMS1, I went right to a remote tune from stock (which was updated to GMS1 and then edited for a bit more) so I am debating changing everything to GMS1 and then tweaking things myself since I read GMS1 runs around 20psi of boost? That is all I am really looking to get my original 200k turbo to do since any higher may cause a replacement very soon (it was pushing 23-24psi on the remote tune) I know it is a leaner tune so I would update the PE and all that.

    My current questions are:

    1. does load damping help with quick blip of throttle knock? part of me thinks it does nothing (which I have also read a lot on the older threads) but I tried to disable it recently and I am not sure if it did anything. Sometimes its #4 but other times it is #3 or #1. 1-3.7 degrees.

    2. For smoothing out a table does that mean the 3d chart is really symmetrical? meaning the lines are all linear horizontally and vertically. I have been playing with this during my first version and there were some really good changes I felt during city driving but I also found a way to mess my idle up cause it became lumpy and random rev hanging (which I later fixed due to changing DFCO) the tables I hand smoothed were: main spark, op spark, torque to load,and optimum torque. The only one I hand smoothed for this new version has been main spark so far.

    3. For my cold start and idle I know GMtech mentioned ~20 degrees for cold start is ideal for a happy LNF. Mine was around 15 today but slowly declined to around 9-10. As the engine warms up does the timing drop that much? For idle I do notice sometimes itll run as low as 3-5 degrees or sometimes even negative timing. Only thread I could find on that was MikeM.

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  2. #22
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSmile View Post
    That is ok! Hope you feel better soon! Sadly my fiances step dad was (and still is) hospitalized from receiving his dose.

    I think I am getting the hang of it now. Every change I do, I can feel and see what it is doing when before there would be lots of good changes and some bad and then I'd have no idea if it was from OP changes or other.

    I have never ran stock vs GMS1, I went right to a remote tune from stock (which was updated to GMS1 and then edited for a bit more) so I am debating changing everything to GMS1 and then tweaking things myself since I read GMS1 runs around 20psi of boost? That is all I am really looking to get my original 200k turbo to do since any higher may cause a replacement very soon (it was pushing 23-24psi on the remote tune) I know it is a leaner tune so I would update the PE and all that.

    My current questions are:

    1. does load damping help with quick blip of throttle knock? part of me thinks it does nothing (which I have also read a lot on the older threads) but I tried to disable it recently and I am not sure if it did anything. Sometimes its #4 but other times it is #3 or #1. 1-3.7 degrees.

    2. For smoothing out a table does that mean the 3d chart is really symmetrical? meaning the lines are all linear horizontally and vertically. I have been playing with this during my first version and there were some really good changes I felt during city driving but I also found a way to mess my idle up cause it became lumpy and random rev hanging (which I later fixed due to changing DFCO) the tables I hand smoothed were: main spark, op spark, torque to load,and optimum torque. The only one I hand smoothed for this new version has been main spark so far.

    3. For my cold start and idle I know GMtech mentioned ~20 degrees for cold start is ideal for a happy LNF. Mine was around 15 today but slowly declined to around 9-10. As the engine warms up does the timing drop that much? For idle I do notice sometimes itll run as low as 3-5 degrees or sometimes even negative timing. Only thread I could find on that was MikeM.
    Prayers for your relatives. I'm finally coming around luckily. Apparently i had an underlying sickness kick in so i got dragged through 2 at the same time.
    1) I didn't notice it helping much.
    2) It depends on the table but what i mean is if you look at the 3D view and it has spikes all over it then you need to smooth it out. From one cell to another the transition should be smooth.
    3) It does decay as it warms up because everything expands and seals the cylinders up, making it more efficient. It takes some work to get it to behave.
    4) The tune you have is probably fine. Jumping back and forth between tunes just resets your progress. I stopped using the GMS1 file because i could make a better file by hand on initial flash. User preference i guess, but if you have a bunch of time in adjustments and want to make forward progress, then what you got now is likely the better file to keep moving from.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  3. #23
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    Prayers for your relatives. I'm finally coming around luckily. Apparently i had an underlying sickness kick in so i got dragged through 2 at the same time.
    1) I didn't notice it helping much.
    2) It depends on the table but what i mean is if you look at the 3D view and it has spikes all over it then you need to smooth it out. From one cell to another the transition should be smooth.
    3) It does decay as it warms up because everything expands and seals the cylinders up, making it more efficient. It takes some work to get it to behave.
    4) The tune you have is probably fine. Jumping back and forth between tunes just resets your progress. I stopped using the GMS1 file because i could make a better file by hand on initial flash. User preference i guess, but if you have a bunch of time in adjustments and want to make forward progress, then what you got now is likely the better file to keep moving from.
    Good to hear man! Thank you for your replies. I have stuck with my file and make some more adjustments which I think helped. I had ~18 degrees for my cold start and idle wasn't as jumpy which was related to changing low load wgdc values. I also changed the warm up factor to always use the warm cam tables. I also took my first WOT pull since starting to toy around and I spiked around 22 psi if I use the absolute manifold pressure vs baro but if I use the low res pressure i saw 24-25 psi. Which is the best to use? Torque to load were in the 300s so I turned the highest to 280 and that was the result so I am gonna turn them down again to 255 and see how much that gives. Lambda held steady commanded which made me happy as I don't need to adjust the fuel for now.

    More questions!!

    1. Now that I am adjusting boost I know to use the torque to load however my wgdc tables is pretty much GMS1 with the last 4 cells 5k+ being increased smoothly to 100. If I keep torque to load high but turn down my wdgc what impact would that have vs keeping wgdc as high as it is and adjusting my torque to load?

    2. I added stock tip in retard values since the remote tuner zeroed it out. Would this be how I can control that false KR from the blip of the throttle?

    3. For adjusting the MAF i read people have over adjusted and really messed it up. How do I know when its perfectly done? I keep getting close but then the next log will show a bit of a change which I assume is why you guys suggest +-5 is good. I have left thhe MAF calibration alone but keep adjusting the maf correction.

    4. Component protection is causing my commanded to change a bit sometimes. I know if I was catless I could change the table to all 1s to disable but since I just have a high flow cat is it still recommended to add a bit of fuel when the temps get high? or is it personal preference since it would mean replacing them sooner?

    5. I know you said optimum torque table is the way to add finishing touches but I am overly excited to adjust it lol I see my WOT values are 99 so I assume not to make it 100 but if I slightly turn up each cell what kind of change can I expect? Similar to increasing torque per rpm?


    thanks again for all of your replies and help really appreciate it

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  4. #24
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    Adjust boost based on teh boost lo res (charge pipe t-map sensor)

    1) it tells the computer that the torque output is closer to 100% modeled output and the wastegate just adjusts pressure.
    2) It helps. I leave some in there to prevent tip in detonations. It doesnt really hurt performance and retains a level of safety. I dont know why everyone goes turning it off.
    3) The maf is split up into a frequency based calibration that is an exponential curve and a 2D correction factor. Tune the exponential curve smoothly while targeting that +/-5%. Once you get there move to the 2D correction factor table. It sounds like you did this already which is good. If you can drive around in just about any condition and the values stay within 5-8% then your pretty much done.
    4) Personal preference. You can burn a cat out from the heat so that hardware safety fueling event is up to you to leave on or disable. Typically i disable for a few dyno pulls to set the calibrations and then i turn it back on when im done. This way it doesnt effect the tuning of the base fuel.
    5) You will pick up some power when it matches the shape of your physical torque output. In the max load area, i always had mine at 99.99 or 100% from 3700rpm and up. Never saw enough change there to warrant spending more time searching for HP. I did spend plenty of time in the mid range to pick efficiency up when i did cam phase testing.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  5. #25
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    Adjust boost based on teh boost lo res (charge pipe t-map sensor)

    1) it tells the computer that the torque output is closer to 100% modeled output and the wastegate just adjusts pressure.
    2) It helps. I leave some in there to prevent tip in detonations. It doesnt really hurt performance and retains a level of safety. I dont know why everyone goes turning it off.
    3) The maf is split up into a frequency based calibration that is an exponential curve and a 2D correction factor. Tune the exponential curve smoothly while targeting that +/-5%. Once you get there move to the 2D correction factor table. It sounds like you did this already which is good. If you can drive around in just about any condition and the values stay within 5-8% then your pretty much done.
    4) Personal preference. You can burn a cat out from the heat so that hardware safety fueling event is up to you to leave on or disable. Typically i disable for a few dyno pulls to set the calibrations and then i turn it back on when im done. This way it doesnt effect the tuning of the base fuel.
    5) You will pick up some power when it matches the shape of your physical torque output. In the max load area, i always had mine at 99.99 or 100% from 3700rpm and up. Never saw enough change there to warrant spending more time searching for HP. I did spend plenty of time in the mid range to pick efficiency up when i did cam phase testing.

    Thanks for replying ! So I have had a week to play with some things and what I found was I dialed in my fuel trims well but I think my MAF sensor is dirty so I need to clean it. I played with the optimum torque in the cruise areas and I feel like I need to learn more before I mess with it.

    Question:Would GMS1 with the MAF adjusted and some little tweaks be best for DD/overall reliability. I believe my original turbo is on the way out since I found out it has been boosting over 24-25psi since the intake manifold sensor maxes out at 37psi. I have been tuned as of early this year which is fine I wanted an excuse to upgrade but I do need my car for school and having it down while I wait for the turbo to come in will cause some issues. I have kept notes of what I changed on the file so I can always continue where I left off but for now I am thinking it'll be safer to run GMS1. What do you think?

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  6. #26
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    i ran teh GMS1 for a while and didnt have issues. If the turbo is going to die because its on the way out, no amount of tuning is going to save it. You may prolong it but expect it to die eventually. 18-19 psi should reduce the shaft load enough to still be a fun driver while extending its life farther than its current situation.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  7. #27
    Tuner in Training SSmile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    i ran teh GMS1 for a while and didnt have issues. If the turbo is going to die because its on the way out, no amount of tuning is going to save it. You may prolong it but expect it to die eventually. 18-19 psi should reduce the shaft load enough to still be a fun driver while extending its life farther than its current situation.
    So you didn't tweak anything at all? Not even the MAF? Or did you make some changes over top of GMS1.

    Yes I am aware that the turbo situation cannot be saved which is why I want to at least turn it down to relieve some of the stress I have caused it from boosting much higher.

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  8. #28
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    So i got my TCSS right when they came out. I ran it oem and tuned LSJ stuff until the HPT software got a little up to speed. As soon as the GMS1 kit came out i jumped on that and ran it for about 3 months OEM. Once we found out there was more missing tables that cause boost reset, boost set to 23 psi by tuner would eventually learn back to a lower number like 17-18 psi, i started jumping in tuning my car. I really wanted to help figure out the boost learn issue so i was running a GMS1 with the maf dialed in. I ran 19 psi for about 1.5 years on a modified GMS1. When we got table access to what we have now i started running 24 psi for another year and blew 2 turbos. When i was on the second replacement, i started to do whatever i could with cams and injection learning. The idea was to help all the OG guys out with data support but i was a younger hotheaded a-hole at the time so that's probably not how it went down. Anyways...since then i never saw a reason to go back to the GMS1 because i knew from previous tuning experiences with cams and injection angles in play, that the GMS1 was inferior to any properly setup full tune from a reputable shop.

    To shorten it up. You shouldn't have any problem running the proper OEM file settings or a fuel improved GMS1 file.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    So i got my TCSS right when they came out. I ran it oem and tuned LSJ stuff until the HPT software got a little up to speed. As soon as the GMS1 kit came out i jumped on that and ran it for about 3 months OEM. Once we found out there was more missing tables that cause boost reset, boost set to 23 psi by tuner would eventually learn back to a lower number like 17-18 psi, i started jumping in tuning my car. I really wanted to help figure out the boost learn issue so i was running a GMS1 with the maf dialed in. I ran 19 psi for about 1.5 years on a modified GMS1. When we got table access to what we have now i started running 24 psi for another year and blew 2 turbos. When i was on the second replacement, i started to do whatever i could with cams and injection learning. The idea was to help all the OG guys out with data support but i was a younger hotheaded a-hole at the time so that's probably not how it went down. Anyways...since then i never saw a reason to go back to the GMS1 because i knew from previous tuning experiences with cams and injection angles in play, that the GMS1 was inferior to any properly setup full tune from a reputable shop.

    To shorten it up. You shouldn't have any problem running the proper OEM file settings or a fuel improved GMS1 file.
    That is good to know! Damn eh 24psi seems to be the killer amount lol fun but definitely makes the K04 die quickly. I was wondering because I will just throw on the GMS1 until I get a new turbo ordered. Then I'll get back to boosting it higher and see what new changes I can make with a new turbo.

    Ever tune a S257 or 6758?

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