Cold start Cat warm up timing table

[Admir101]

Hello, I'm new to tuning and mainly got HP tuners to try and tune out the cold start Cat warm up mode in my 2014 Mustang. I want to learn more about all the other parameters and this website has been a huge help in getting me started. I know the mode usually retards timing into negative numbers and adds a bunch of extra fuel to try and light off the Cats. I have been playing around in VCM Editor and I can find the table for a 2005 mustang in the sample tune but I cant seem to locate anything like it for the 2011 Mustang sample. I have also looked at a 2014 stock file from this website and cannot seem to find the table that would control this. I do see you can adjust at what temp the vehicle considers a cold start but im not sure if adjusting this temp will achieve what I want. I have not received my device yet but wanted to learn as much as I can before hand. Thanks again. Cheers.

[Seishuku]

I don't have a 2014 file on hand, but check ECM #11545, #11535, and #11539

[K44]

So would you max the tables or zero them out?

[Seishuku]

For the base tables, I *think* you need to 0 them... The Adder table, I'm not sure, it might be 0 too.

I haven't had much time to play with it myself, so you might have to do some experimenting with it.

[Admir101]

Awesome there they are Thanks. I didn't expect them to be under the Adder. Still getting used to all the terminology. Yeah im gonna play around with the timing and see what gives me the best cold start without messing up the startup. I would assume 5-10 degrees would be fine for the Adders at cold catalyst temps as they go above that after some cat temp. The base timing maps don't actually go into negative timing so I would assume they would not need to be changed but like I said I'm no expert. Its gonna be trial and error I will start with the Adder because that's the only table I can see with a relation of Cat temp and negative timing. Thanks again!!

[Seishuku]

Hmm, from what little info I can find on those tables, it would seem that you have to max out the base tables (seems they have an interaction when the value is less than MBT, *I think*), but the adder table I would think would be zeroed for ?no reduction.?

Definitely needs some testing.

[engineermike]

I have put all 55 and all 0 in the CSER base and adder tables and never could tell a difference in the logged CSER timing. I *think* it might be using torque modulation spark ratios to control this. 2018 fwiw.

[Admir101]

I have put all 55 and all 0 in the CSER base and adder tables and never could tell a difference in the logged CSER timing. I *think* it might be using torque modulation spark ratios to control this. 2018 fwiw.

Did it reduce the startup noise? its just so obnoxious without Cats when it does it for the first 15 seconds.

[engineermike]

I couldnt tell any difference with startup noise either. The timing still started out in the negatives and ramped up to mbt in the first two minutes.

[Admir101]

I see thanks for the reply. I'll check mine when I get my device but there must be a way to adjust this.

[engineermike]

If you log spark source during CSER, it shows “torque modulation”, at least on the Gen3. The only luck Ive had manipulating this at all was by modifying spark torque ratios under torque management. This is why I think theyre controlling CSER timing with the torque algorithms not the CSER base and adder.

[Admir101]

So I can confirm on my 2014 gen 1 it did the trick. The Adder, Base neutral and base drive tables under the emission reduction section I made all the values 55 on all 3 tables and the car starts and idles normally and smoothly with the RPMs staying up for a couple seconds but does not go into negative timing. Exactly what I wanted. Exhaust note also sounds good with no cats unlike before when it would "flab" for a while initially. I have also turned off the catalyst protection but I doubt this would have an effect on the cold start I just did it because I dont need it anymore. Thanks for everyones help.

[Ethan5.019]

If you log spark source during CSER, it shows “torque modulation”, at least on the Gen3. The only luck Ive had manipulating this at all was by modifying spark torque ratios under torque management. This is why I think theyre controlling CSER timing with the torque algorithms not the CSER base and adder.

I was looking at adjusting my cold start as well since I'm now catless and my logged Spark Source says Torque Control. The CSER table is under the Torque Management Tab so would this be the same thing?

[JuiceNA]

I disabled cat warmup with a single change on my 13.
MiN_MAN_Vacuum_ setting.(sorry, going from memory here) Default is 4.5. I set it to 25, done. Classic normal startup.
HP tuner may not have that parameter defined, I don't know.

[engineermike]

I was looking at adjusting my cold start as well since I'm now catless and my logged Spark Source says Torque Control. The CSER table is under the Torque Management Tab so would this be the same thing?

I had the same experience with Spark Source. It says Torque Control during the entire CSER period. I also tried min'ing and max'ing out all spark tables under Spark->Advance->Base->Emissions Reduction and it made no difference. I know this worked for many, but perhaps they were Gen2 or perhaps the Whipple cal is mapped differently. I do know there are "vestigial" tables in the Gen3 definition that were left mapped from Gen2 but make absolutely no difference on the Gen3. For instance, tables 43002 (fuel pump voltage) has no effect on Gen3 because the pump is controlled differently. Anyway, I did have some luck modifying CSER timing by modifying the Torque Management->General->Torque Ratio Clips.

[Ethan5.019]

I had the same experience with Spark Source. It says Torque Control during the entire CSER period. I also tried min'ing and max'ing out all spark tables under Spark->Advance->Base->Emissions Reduction and it made no difference. I know this worked for many, but perhaps they were Gen2 or perhaps the Whipple cal is mapped differently. I do know there are "vestigial" tables in the Gen3 definition that were left mapped from Gen2 but make absolutely no difference on the Gen3. For instance, tables 43002 (fuel pump voltage) has no effect on Gen3 because the pump is controlled differently. Anyway, I did have some luck modifying CSER timing by modifying the Torque Management->General->Torque Ratio Clips.

I want to say I modified the timing in the Spark>Advance>Base Emissons Reduction table and had a positive result in taking the cold start. I change all the negative values to 0 and I'm also going to adjust the Idle RPM values and see if that also helps.

[JuiceNA]

Min_man_vacuum_to exit mode.... something like that. It's been a while since I turned this off.
Default is 4.5 in hg. Set to 25 in hg. Done. No need to mess with any of the tables.
Parm may not be defined in HP tuners.

[Ethan5.019]

Min_man_vacuum_to exit mode.... something like that. It's been a while since I turned this off.
Default is 4.5 in hg. Set to 25 in hg. Done. No need to mess with any of the tables.
Parm may not be defined in HP tuners.

Id have to find this in the Gen3 Calibration. I'll look though.

[Ethan5.019]

I had the same experience with Spark Source. It says Torque Control during the entire CSER period. I also tried min'ing and max'ing out all spark tables under Spark->Advance->Base->Emissions Reduction and it made no difference. I know this worked for many, but perhaps they were Gen2 or perhaps the Whipple cal is mapped differently. I do know there are "vestigial" tables in the Gen3 definition that were left mapped from Gen2 but make absolutely no difference on the Gen3. For instance, tables 43002 (fuel pump voltage) has no effect on Gen3 because the pump is controlled differently. Anyway, I did have some luck modifying CSER timing by modifying the Torque Management->General->Torque Ratio Clips.

Did your idle get unstable when you changed the Torque ratio clips?

[engineermike]

No, mine did not. I was struggling with a step change in torque when CSER switched off and eventually fixed it by manipulating torque ratio max.