5.3 on 14psi boost with no oxygen sensors to be found?!?

[Warsteiner05]

Just getting into tuning... because I bought a 1980 Sterling Jet boat powered by a twin-turbo LM7 5.3. UPS just delieverd my new MVPI2 Pro+

1st Question: Before I hook up and download the file, what do I for a VIN option? Supposedly the boat was tuned already, but I have no idea whether it was with EFI Live or Hptuners. ECM came from a Gen 3 GM but unknown year or VIN. The VIN in the ECM should be readable correct? Do I use my 2 credits that the MVPI2 came with to unlock THAT SPECIFIC vin? OR should I start from scratch with a different ECM with an untouched factory tune ?

NOW FOR THE GOOD PART!!! This engine has NO OXYGEN sensors for the ECM. Only an INNOVATE Wideband on the Left Bank Turbo outlet only that runs up to the guage/contoller. The passenger side bank isn't being monitored at all. Being somewhat unfamiliar with tuning a Gen 3, my first thought is maybe they tuned it solely using the left bank Wideband o2 feedback. Is that even possible? (I would prefer TWO wideband sensors/controllers) one per bank.

3rd Question: when scanning using a Snap-on Solus edge, Im getting a MAF circuit High code. When I purchased the boat I assumed it was tuned speed density, since there was no MAF to be found. If you tune for speed density, eliminating the MAF, will you still get a MAF Circuit high code?

Yes the boat runs, yes it makes full boost, but it has a few hiccups/stutters here and there... and the AFR on the wideband is 14-15.5:1 at full load at 4400RPM in which the jet pump has loaded the engine and the engine cannot push the jet drive any harder. Which is wayy too lean! Hence the reason for tuning the setup.

Engine specs: unknown year 5.3 with 706 heads, unknown turbo cam, 1 3/4 primary turbo headers to twin 70mm snails, dual wastegates set at 14psi, truck intake, 80lb siemens deka injectors (verified by part number on injectors), Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump with a 13101 bypass regulator.

THANK YOU GUYS FOR ANY AND ALL HELP getting me up and going!

[Bgbdwlf2500]

Not a pro but I'm sure you can read the existing ecm fine. You can add a wideband if you want. I feel like there should be some 02 sensors for short term fuel trims. You have to fail the maf to get it into SD so yes there will be a code. Definitely need to get it some fuel for sure at high rpms

[village_idiot]

Someone may correct me, but I doubt it... I would want at least 1 wideband and 1 narrowband on the boat ASAP. If the exhaust length will allow it, I would prefer both standard o2's, and the WB. My reasoning behind this, is (by the way it is being described) it sounds like this boat has no way to adjust AFR on the fly (the PCM does not use the WB, it will only report back to the gauge, or tie in to your HPT). In a normal scenario, the tune (whether MAF or SD) would inject X amount of fuel, and the o2's would report back lean/rich by X%....causing an adjustment to be made.

Back to your questions.....

1 - VIN will be read out of the ECU when you read the file. When you attempt to WRITE the file the first time, it will ask for credits based on that VIN.

2 - See above....I was focused on the scary part

3 - Yes, when in SD you should have any one of three codes (po101, po102, po103)

[Warsteiner05]

Someone may correct me, but I doubt it... I would want at least 1 wideband and 1 narrowband on the boat ASAP. If the exhaust length will allow it, I would prefer both standard o2's, and the WB. My reasoning behind this, is (by the way it is being described) it sounds like this boat has no way to adjust AFR on the fly (the PCM does not use the WB, it will only report back to the gauge, or tie in to your HPT). In a normal scenario, the tune (whether MAF or SD) would inject X amount of fuel, and the o2's would report back lean/rich by X%....causing an adjustment to be made.

Back to your questions.....

1 - VIN will be read out of the ECU when you read the file. When you attempt to WRITE the file the first time, it will ask for credits based on that VIN.

2 - See above....I was focused on the scary part

3 - Yes, when in SD you should have any one of three codes (po101, po102, po103)

Thank you for the help! Whats blowing my mind is why is there no open circuit codes for the o2 sensors? Unless somewhere in the wiring are o2 sensor foolers that I just haven't discovered yet.

Bank 1 and bank 2 are completely independent of each other on the exhaust flow out of the engine and out the downpipes. Each bank has its own header, turbo, wastegate, downpipe. This is why i'm leaning towards installing bungs and sensors for both banks right before the turbo.

Also this is why I want another wideband to monitor the passenger side bank of cylinders. Will my innovate wideband controller/monitor work with the MPVI2 Pro? If not I will just purchase a 2 bank system that will.

[nitrousbob]

tune it using the wideband in open loop and just use the wideband to detect problems. just check to make sure trims are off as they should be for this setup and dial that VE table in.

[Warsteiner05]

tune it using the wideband in open loop and just use the wideband to detect problems. just check to make sure trims are off as they should be for this setup and dial that VE table in.

So you would tune it in open-loop and just use open-loop all the time? This is what my initial thinking was, maybe they tuned it to the AFR they wanted. Street driveability and idle quality are not of concern. Its a boosted 5.3 turning a huge water pump at anywhere from 0 to 100% load. No shifting or low rpm TC lock-up, none of the typical nitpicky tuning converns.

[Ben Charles]

I run OL all the time on setups

[village_idiot]

Ben, I feel like there's two different thought processes going on in here. Tuning in OL, I get. Are you saying you LEAVE setups in OL after tuning them? They just stay that way? What would be the benefit of having no CL adjustments while part throttle cruising?

[Ben Charles]

I run OL full time on setups even in the area where CL control would be helpful.. reason why is I can control fuel exactly where I want to.. I can lean out idle and part throttle cruise with larger cams and help with transitions better, better exhaust/cam note and little better fuel economy..
PE still functions the same and fuel flow will follow PE still as if the car ran in OL..

[village_idiot]

I got ya. I can see how there would be a different method of control there. Do you run STFT in OL if you run full time OL, or no?

[Ben Charles]

STFT is CL control so it is not used in OL!!

[village_idiot]

It's an option to do so in the ECU if you want to. I was just asking out of curiosity. Didn't mean to frustrate you

[Ben Charles]

It’s not an option... it’s labeled wrong in the ECM... there is NO such thing as STFT in OL...

Not sure who you’re frustrating but not me .. I’m just giving free friendly advice

[decipha]

Its a jet boat not a vehicle, o2's aren't needed nor recommended. Throttle is basically an on / off switch. O2s on a boat will go to shit anyway due to the environment.

There is no drive-ability to be dialed in there's no part throttle fine tuning etc... its a boat.

MAF and their codes can all be disabled.

You shouldn't have a problem reading the tune out. Read it out and go multiply the main and backup ve tables up top by x 1.35 to get some fuel in her at wot.

How much timing does she have in her up top at wot ?

[Warsteiner05]

Its a jet boat not a vehicle, o2's aren't needed nor recommended. Throttle is basically an on / off switch. O2s on a boat will go to shit anyway due to the environment.

There is no drive-ability to be dialed in there's no part throttle fine tuning etc... its a boat.

MAF and their codes can all be disabled.

You shouldn't have a problem reading the tune out. Read it out and go multiply the main and backup ve tables up top by x 1.35 to get some fuel in her at wot.

How much timing does she have in her up top at wot ?

I had a misfire/hiccup saturday on the water... waited on my MPVI2 to log data and find the issue, during my wait I pulled the plugs to do a compression test, #2 plug was missing the ground electrode and the center electrode, compression test came back 45-50 psi max after many revolutions. Stuck my camera down in the hole and found out the piston is trashed, its melted in 3 different locations. Hence no data log or tune file necessary at the moment. Or at least until I get another engine in it or fix this one.

Next issue... I have a 2007 LMG 5.3 laying in the corner, but it's a 58x reluctor crank whereas the current LM7 is a 24x. Is there anyway to make the GEN 3 ECM run a 58x engine? Or is a wiring and ECM swap in the works using the LMG?

[village_idiot]

What I absolutely would not do is throw 35% extra fuel up top and just wildly guess at it.

Water environments are not good for o2?s, but at the VERY least, you need to tune it with a WB at WOT and then remove it and cap the o2 bung.

Yes lingenfelter has a conversion wiring harness to run a 58x engine with a 24x ECU