PE/BE Issue Randomly working

[oldstata]

So i have this problem with PE/BE not coming in like it should at most times it will activate but just not add fuel to reach target 11.5 WOT you can clearly see it activate wile monitoring fuel system status and AFR commanded randomly at times it will work wright and start 13.0 then drop to 11.5 and hold then other times it starts 13.0 then clime to 17.0 at that time I'll pull out of TPS or at times it just chokes out I have tried many different options with PE & BE with ramp in throttle command KPA.. even putting PE supper rich and still random results or making BE supper rich same thing hopefully someone can point me in the right direction this is a OS 2-Bar tune.. Note I had the same problem before OS 2-Bar I actually thought going OS 2-Bar would help??



2005 Gto Torid Red
408 Stroker 10.3 Cr
Howard Cam
0.625 Int & Exh 284 Int 301.6 Exh 118 Sep
823 Squire port heads built but not ported
Snakeaters 80-lb injectors
Magnuson 2.3 Od cog pulleys 3.0 Front
Innovative West 10% Od 8-rib conversion

[5FDP]

You are never commanding 11.5 AFR though. You have the math wrong in your PE and BE tables.

14.68/1.10 = 13.34 AFR. The richest your PE ever gets in 1.125 but that is at 8,000rpm.

And holy cow that is one of the worst timing tables I have ever seen. It will run better with a stock-ish like curve where running 30-40 degrees of timing at light loads is totally fine. You only need it to come down in timing where cylinder airmass starts to go way up and you get into boost.

You'll need to do more MAF and VE tuning as well as making sure you are never losing fuel pressure.

[Lakegoat]

Look up the correct data for the Map sensor. I don't think linear B is 85 something and offset is not 0. You can't make up those numbers to correct something else. Now that your are boosted, PE should kick in at 85 kpa---not 15 and Boost enrichment should kick in at 105 kpa--not 85. Make the PE Eq ratio 1.27 across for Boost and at least start 1.27 at 3000 rpm and above for regular PE. I just have both charts at 1.27 across and use the map to trigger. And yeah, fix those timing tables and boost VE has not been tuned. set your wideband for Lambda, not afr error.
I just looked at your scan and at key on, engine off, yor map reads 83 kpa--should be close to 100. Means the the data is not correct for whatever map you have.

[oldstata]

5FDP You are correct that timing table was a result of fear the engine was re built less then a 1000K miles ago and recently I started to put the engine into boost now the break in is done when i saw that it was going supper lean I panicked and chopped timing table down till I can get this PE issue resolved then I can work on timing table and fine tune VE & Maf tables, I'm not sure why the math doesn't work with my PE/BE tables but if you look at the log hardcruise#3 time stamp 7:52 you can see PE activates at 80-kpa and starts at 13.40 jumps around a bit then drops to 10.8 then floats around in the 11.0 to 12.0 before tps release also in log hardcruise#2 time stamp 8:00 dose the same thing....

Lakegoat the Baro for my area is 12.0 {83-kpa} to 12.5 depending on weather,, so boost for me starts around 84-kpa.. But you are correct the actual data for that sensor is 268 linear & -10 offset but this is a E-40 with hard limits so i had to use what it is at, i am working on finding a map sensor that will fit with in the hard limits.. on a side note i did map the sensor with a handheld press/vac tool against pcm readings they are with in .20 to .05-psi till it gets above 12.0 psi then the spread increases,, I'm not sure if I will hit above 12-psi of boost the most i seen is 10-psi.. The PE is very consistent it always activates around 80-kpa. it just isn't consistent with fueling... I don't want to sound like I'm arguing with either of you I appreciate you took the time to review my issue and post back I'm just giving you guys the facts and trying to explain what i have done at this point I just started learning how to tune like 5-months ago I have a lot to learn.. I will put my timing back to prier and make PE/BE richer and set PE=85-kpa & BE=105-kpa as suggested and post results.. Also I will start figuring out what I need to correct the boost VE table I sort of went off the video copper doc, has on u-tube

[eXo3901]

If you're confident in your own MAP calibration values, ok. If not and only ~10psi of boost then you can use this 2-bar MAP sensor, part #12615136. linear 200, linear B 66.66, offset 8. Works well for me.

Lower your PE Throttle by 9% at 2,000rpm through 3,500rpm.

Your 105kpa main VE and 105kpa boost VE columns should match. As should your MAF low 5,800hz and MAF hi 5,800hz columns.

Your boost VE table uses % units(GMVE). - Set your main VE table units to % (right click->units->percent). Copy your 71kpa column to the 105kpa column then multiply the 105kpa column by 10% (1.10). Highlight your 71kpa-105kpa columns and interpolate horizontal bounds. At this point, if you want to, highlight the entire main VE table and smash the smooth selection button 2-3 times. Now copy your 105kpa main VE column to your 105kpa boost VE table (still using % as the unit). Copy the 105kpa column again to the 255kpa column of the boost VE table and multiply the 255kpa column by 20% (1.20). Highlight the entire boost VE table and interpolate between horizontal bounds. When you are done with MAF tuning, this should be a good start for the SD process.

Hopefully your fuel pressure is good.

[oldstata]

Ok Guys I replaced the timing table back to what it was before. and made PE rich as suggested now PE comes in a little to late like 95-kpa even up to 105-kpa as you can see on the log, when it comes in it pegs the AFR to 10 and pretty much holds there but the good news is its not lean and fairly consistent, so my problem was just simply not enough fuel in the PE table down low just before boost at this point I just need to lower kick in to something like 70-kpa or try what eXo3901 suggested about the 9% on Tps and work on slowly bring Afr to 11.5.. at WOT

eXo3901,, Thanks for the heads up on that sensor I just ordered it from summit racing also great instructions on how to fix my Ve tables, I had no idea about how to set that table to percent till you mentioned it.. I'll be working on those Ve tables next then re tune everything now the PE issue has been somewhat resolved..

Thanks guys

[5FDP]

You'll need to switch to using Lambda too for wideband tuning. Because your stoich is doubled for the large injectors you can't do AFR as easy anymore.

Switch to commanded EQ ratio and change the units of your wideband to Lambda.

You're not suppose to just keep adding to the PE or BE to make the fueling do what you ask. Once the commanded AFR/Lambda is set, you add/remove fuel to the VE table to make it match. If you PE is asking for low 12 and upper 11's but the wideband shows 10.00, just remove fuel from the VE.

[eXo3901]

Ok Guys I replaced the timing table back to what it was before. and made PE rich as suggested now PE comes in a little to late like 95-kpa even up to 105-kpa as you can see on the log, when it comes in it pegs the AFR to 10 and pretty much holds there but the good news is its not lean and fairly consistent, so my problem was just simply not enough fuel in the PE table down low just before boost at this point I just need to lower kick in to something like 70-kpa or try what eXo3901 suggested about the 9% on Tps and work on slowly bring Afr to 11.5.. at WOT

eXo3901,, Thanks for the heads up on that sensor I just ordered it from summit racing also great instructions on how to fix my Ve tables, I had no idea about how to set that table to percent till you mentioned it.. I'll be working on those Ve tables next then re tune everything now the PE issue has been somewhat resolved..

Thanks guys

In your log, each time the logged TPS value was at 54-55% when entering PE except the pull that hit boost PE right at 105kpa. The last pull of the log did not enter PE and throttle never hit 54%. Looks like your on the edge based on that info and interpolation between PE TPS columns knocked you out of PE on one of the pulls during/after the shift. So, try lowering the PE throttle as mentioned and see what the PE delay is then. On my 2006 none of the TPS channels match the PE throttle table exactly. The scanner usually shows that I have a PE delay compared to my settings but PE hits at 97kpa 99% of the time which is about where I wanted to be with my setup. I have a D1SC. (RPM: 2k-2.5k 16%, 3k 15%, 3.5k 13%, 4k 10%. Enable MAP: 75kpa)

[oldstata]

5FDP,, Now that kind of explains why the math in the PE table didn't pan out with the AFR gauge,, for some reason I thought the PE Took over all fueling when it was activated so the correct way is to use the math in PE and adjust fueling wile in PE with the VE Table against the AFR Error logs ?? Like doing a SD tune ??
I will try again and try to change wideband to lambda for some reason I just couldn't get it to work before but now I have a little more knowledge with hp software I mite be able to figure it out,, curranty I have been using a user math I found on this site not exactly how accurate it is because it reads a little higher like +2 then LTFT dose,, On a side note the LTFT looks good in this log though..

eXo3901,, I ended up changing back to how it was in first logs it always kicked in just before boost but just was not fueling, now that problem was figured out I just was to lean in PE table.. In this log it shows its working good and that last pull it got a little lean then quickly dropped to 11.5 and climbed to 12 when I let out I still need to put a little more work into it up in the upper rpm range but for the most part its safe..