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Thread: Hidden WOT shift mode Fusion sport 2.7 NGX1HPT

  1. #1
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    Hidden WOT shift mode Fusion sport 2.7 NGX1HPT

    2017 Fusion Sport 2.7 NGX1HPT
    Upgraded turbos

    WOT 1-2 no matter what I change the commanded gear change is requested about 5900rpm and 1180 oss and then it over revs to over 6500rpm which I don't want. I've changed the regular WOT table to 4400rpm and the altitude WOT table to 4400 and no effect.

    I also set the part throttle shift tables to 960 oss for the 1-2 in case it was using those and no effect. That OSS corresponds with about 4500rpm. So it's plenty low.

    There is supposed to be a switch according to the definition to use the Altitude WOT shift mode that I don't see. I thought as a hack I could invoke that table.

    Also there is a pedal position for WOT for the trans that is not exposed, if it was it would be about 585 according to SCT advantage. If I had access to that I could raise that to keep the trans from invoking WOT tables as a hack also possibly.

    I've tried every combination of disabling/enabling torque based shift schedule along with the switch to use RPM anticipated shifts. No effect. It's like I can't change the commanded shift point.

    I've raised the max vehicle accel rate in case the calculation was getting clipped. And also there is a filter in that section for vehicle accel rate predictive that is stock .150 that we don't have access to in HPT not sure if that would help changing that one way or another.

    Last thing in the WOT shift tables the last 2 rows says "Not used". I did change the values there also for the 1-2 to 4400rpm like the rest but maybe they could be used if activated? I'm not even sure what modes those would be. ECM 9690

    I think there is more going on with the shift access here. I'm running upgraded turbos and about 20 psi so maybe I'm in some torque mode?

    It's clearly a shift mode because If I leave traction control and I invoke traction control during WOT 1-2 it will follow the traction control shift schedule just fine. But once I turn off traction control it does what it wants and the shift isn't commanded until 5900rpm and it will over rev.

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    Luckily I do have access to NGX1HPT.

    In 1st gear the TCC doesn't lock so you have to account for the "over-rev". So you may have to target a shift RPM about 400 RPM below where you intended. I know you mentioned changing it already. Are you just doing it for Base and Sport shift schedule tables? For the 3-4, 4-5, and 5-6 shift schedules, you can just target the OSS for the corresponding engine RPMs as the TCC has pretty much locked in those conditions.

    When you experience this over-rev, do you see any spark cut by any chance? Does the Torque Source read Trans Shift Mod?
    I had this problem with my Explorer for the 1-2 and 2-3. In the Fusion it eventually stopped being that noticeable. In the Explorer, it stopped doing it for the 1-2, but does it for the 2-3. I need to do about 3 or 4 of these WOT 2-3 shifts before it goes away and each time I flash a tune, I have to repeat this.

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    For the Base and Sport OSS shift schedule tables, try 1360 for 1-2 at WOT the high # rows and 2124 for 2-3. There's about 200-300 RPM over-rev from what I have found just for the 1-2 and 2-3. For 3-4 and above, you can pick the right OSS for the corresponding engine RPM.
    Make sure 9690 and 9691 have the right RPM's as well (6250 RPM for what you mentioned).

    I'm not aware of any secret shift mode. If you want you can post your tune file or maybe a log. What sources are you seeing at that point? Are you doing this with the engine relatively cold?

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    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    When you experience this over-rev, do you see any spark cut by any chance? Does the Torque Source read Trans Shift Mod?
    I had this problem with my Explorer for the 1-2 and 2-3. In the Fusion it eventually stopped being that noticeable. In the Explorer, it stopped doing it for the 1-2, but does it for the 2-3. I need to do about 3 or 4 of these WOT 2-3 shifts before it goes away and each time I flash a tune, I have to repeat this.

    How many of these WOT shifts are you performing after a new tune flash? The reason I ask is that I went through this with the Fusion Sport early on and still encounter this on the Explorer. I'd make a change, flash, and then run into the same over-rev and get frustrated. But I found if I hammered on it and performed like three of these WOT 2-3 shifts, it'd figure it out and my WOT shifts would occur at or under my commanded shift point. The first WOT 2-3 on the Explorer would be up to 800ms, and by the time I was done, it'd go down as low as 368ms. But Trans Shift Mod followed by spark cut would always show up initially.

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    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    What are you using to datalog? VCM Scanner deciphers that automatically.

    What about your final spark during the shifts? Is there a massive spark cut for the duration of the shift? That would correspond to the Trans Shift Mod. And the reason I keep asking about this is because while the transmission torque gets cut via spark at least on my 6F55 in the Explorer, the Engine RPMs will rise and bang off a limiter before it engages the next gear. After 2 or 3 of these WOT shift events after a new tune flash, it settles down and the trans shift mod / spark cut isn't as bad or goes away completely and my shifts occur as commanded. I've been asking about this for 3 years without hearing anything back from anyone else. You can probably do a search and find my posts asking about it on the Fusion Sport and Explorer.

    My 2014 SHO trans never needed any real tuning. Same 6F55 but it was easier to dial-in by tweaking the WOT shift table RPM's.

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    SCT Live Link and Advantage are garbage. They just made me take a stupid quiz to gain access to the parameters I had access to for over 17 years but because coal rollers caused issues with Bully Dog I had to answer a bunch of questions about diesels.

    The torque reduction caused the over revving condition you are describing for two of my applications
    Again

    How many times are you performing the WOT shifts after a reflash? Each time you reflash it resets something with the trans causing the over rev with my applications. I have to perform like 3 WOt shifts before it settles. I wasted time chasing my tail making adjustments reflash and experiencing the same problems rinse repeat recycle. Until I just thrashed it a few times and it stopped doing it and then I saw it not over rev.

    Since you are using SCT I can?t really see the changes you make to the file. But my dads Fusion Sport is the same OS strategy as yours which is in really late 2017 builds and some 2018. But I have seen 2018s with the same revision as mine and My Fusion Sport is the more common revision for 2017.

    Also since you have upgraded turbos the speed density calculations and turbo modeling may contribute to weird shifting as well.

  7. #7
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    SCT has always been garbage. I?ve been running it since 2004 and dropped it like hot trash as soon as HPtuners started supporting Fords. I had previously used HPt for GM. It?s garbage because of a lot of reasons. One is that you can?t even identify whether there is a Trans Shift Mod event with spark cut during the shifts. I can see it clearly on my VCM histograms when it overrevs and bangs of the limiter.

    Since you are running upgraded turbos your torque tables Ve model etc no longer apply. That may not contribute to it but I have no idea if there?s a Hidden setting in SCT because I?m using HPTuners. I even have the base file for your calibration and even worked with Eric to have all of the parameters unlocked since my Fusion was the older calibration.

    I will say again that SCT is garbage. It doesn?t matter if the EPA made them do something but their software was trash 8 plus years ago and still is. I went in Advantage recently to help someone and it reminded me of how horrible it is after jumping through hoops to unlock stuff I should have access to in the first place in the few lousy calibrations I paid for.

  8. #8
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    I don't have the NGXH1PT strategy for SCT, and I know SCT sets things a bit differently. But in HPTuners I have the NGXH1PT and there are 2 settings for pedal position at WOT. One is the Pedal POS WOT Start / End (two scalars) and default is 200 / 200.

    Then under shift schedules, there are 2 tables: Upshift Pedal and Downshift Pedal. These specify which rows of the shift schedules correspond to pedal position (%).

    Spark is being cut on mine during shifts, which I believe is part of the torque reduction logic. My N/A 3.5 V6 has it during the first few WOT shifts, but I noticed on my Fusion Sport that it always does it. But at WOT, I'm at 14* spark advance so when it cuts it by a few degrees I don't really even feel it. On my N/A 3.5, I'm at 20*+ at WOT and when it gets cut down to single digits or negative it can be felt.

    I don't have any issues with WOT shifting with NGXH0P5. Again I worked with Eric at HPT to unlock/define as many of the parameters with NGXH1PT as possible since it seems most Fusion Sport owners are running NGXH0P5. I've noticed mostly late 2017s and 2018s with NGXH1PT but then again I have seen 2018s with NGXH0P5 (the most common strategy).

    Can you take screenshots of your OSS shift schedules for Base and Sport modes? Also the WOT shift table and WOT High Altitude table?

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    It's hard to discern everything in your text, that's why I suggested the screenshots for your SCT tune. You also never said what turbos you are running. If they are MKZ 3.0 turbos, 22 psi is too much but that won't cause this issue. Nor would E30. I'm running E60+ and don't have issues but that shouldn't have anything to do with it either. I know of 2 other people with upgraded turbos and your same OS strategy without any shifting issues but they are running HPTuners or Torrie's tune.

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner metroplex's Avatar
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    I got the email notification with your reply before you deleted it. You mention SCT Livelink early on before you deleted your posts and then claim you have a HPtuners tune. If you have HPtuners then VCM scanner would read the torque source as an actual value and not 0 or 7. So which is it? Sct or hpt? I'd like to help but you provide a lot of conflicting information and fail to mention which turbos you are running and whether you adjusted the torque tables and speed density tables to account for the turbos. In addition I mentioned there are other Fusion Sport tuners here with HPtuners running mkz 3.0 turbos without the shifting problems. I personally submitted missing parameters for your strategy to HPtuners so that they match the older OS because I have two Fusion Sports each with different strategies so I can see both base reads. It sounds like something is wrong with your tune and it is not a missing secret parameter.

  11. #11
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    No conflicting info

    I tune with HPT and log with livelink

    Speed density and torque tables adjusted

    Ive had Eric add things as recently as a few months ago to this strategy in HPT

    Im thinking a corrupt file at this point will test later

    I found a glitch last night?in my HPT tune I found an axis that was changed in oil temp rev limit and it didnt match stock tune and I never put it there so that is strangeI attempted to reset it to stock but the value would keep reverting to the value that was incorrect
    Last edited by chiefton; 06-07-2021 at 02:53 PM.