Dealin with 2 bar problems. Need help~

[redzq8]

I still don't see what faking a 2 bar is doing for your tuning. As I've said before, only the idle VE table is referenced to map for load. The other VE tables are referenced to TPS% for the load axis.

Russ Kemp

The whole thought is that you abandon the TPS sensor altogether, and run the signal from a 2 or 3bar MAP sensor into that terminal on the PCM (Very similar to the wideband logging through EGR signal wire that some have got working on the LSX platforms). What you would have then is a 2 or 3bar MAP based VE table, with PE enables that you can change based on manifold pressure instead of TPS. This would completely change the tune, and I'm certain would require a TON of tweaking, however on a boosted application it certainly would work a ton better than a TPS based VE table. There are a ton of threads on here, and elsewhere on the benefits of a Speed Density tune in a boosted application. This is very similar to the LS1 guys that are running boost dumping the MAF in favor of the SD tunes.

A TPS based table doesn't work well in a boosted application because you can be at 10psi of boost between 50 and 100% TPS. This causes problems on a TPS based VE table cause the VE values change, however while when under boost it will be relatively the same VE needed.

However, I'm not sure how this would effect the AE settings, and DE settings since they are also TPS dependent I'm sure, and woul dnow be controlled by MAP instead of TPS. I'm sure it also effects areas like automatic transmissions, cruise, and things of that nature, however my truck doesn't have either of those, so they are not of concern to me.

Here is a VE table based on MAP, and RPM. This one I used in a Typhoon that I was tuning recently with great success. Those trucks are speed density from the factory, so it's a native feature on that PCM.

[redzq8]

haha this guy doesn't like russ's obviously telling u how things work lol.

I know how it works currently, I just haven't found anyone that can give me a good reason it won't work the way I am proposing

i believe accel enrich isn't available with pe kind of same thing.

you should be ok faking a 2 bar. its worked wonders for me. redz.

PE is power enrichment. Accell enrichment is for when you "stab the gas" so to speak, and there is a big quick swing in TPS. Kind of like an accelerator pump on a carb.

U play paintball redz?

Don't currently play, but used to some. Was good exercise, and fun times.

[redhotjamedjimi]

Paintballs rad.

And i use my fake 2 bar so i can take my psi to 10 eventually so i dont knock and blow up my engine id rather kill the timing a bit and be safe.

Ive put like 8 grand into my truck with bags, system, now turbo so i dont want the hassle of getting a new engine cause I stuck with a 1 bar.

Btw stage 3 clutch in tommorrow and ill race anyone on here. (cough)"REdz"

[redzq8]

I'm in for a race

I'll be at S-series Nats this year in St Louis. Great time to be had by all. I'd love to see another turbo 4banger out there. I've won fastest 4cyl at nats two years running. Sadly it's still pig slow, running in the high 17's. Hoping with some boost to break into some high 15's. Not sure if thats really feasible though, as I've yet to see any turbo 4cyl S10 track times. ever.

I'm not so worried about a new motor. They are a dime a dozen in junkyards. $250 can get you a good long block, and I'd bet I could swap one in a long Saturday. My intention is to run 10psi with a 10:1 FMU initially. Get the software, and start tweaking and run up the boost until something breaks . Guy in Michigan ran a similar setup with ZERO tuning (not even a datalogger) for several years with no bad results. The 2.2 has some low compression (Down near 8.3:1) so it should hold plenty of boost with a good tune. I will be doing something a bit different though. I'll be spraying methanol to cool the intake charge instead of running an intercooler initially. I'm sure I'll end up with an air-to-air at some point, but the first good while will be purely methanol....I actually went over to the shop tonight, and took the compressor housing off my turbo, and will be running it through the parts washer in the machine shop tomorrow afternoon. I'll also be drawing up the flanges I need to get cut as well for the custom uppipe, and downpipe I have planned. Of course I'll be taking pics of everything as things move along.

I've been talking with some friends, and I'm hoping I can get a look at the software first hand here in a week or so (maybe sooner). If I can get a few minutes, I'll open a 2.2 config file, and see what tables are really there, and how feasible converting the TPS signal to a MAP signal is. I have to think there are some more tables we aren't covering. I'll get to the bottom of this eventually.

[imphat0260]

I'm in for a race

I'll be at S-series Nats this year in St Louis. Great time to be had by all. I'd love to see another turbo 4banger out there. I've won fastest 4cyl at nats two years running. Sadly it's still pig slow, running in the high 17's. Hoping with some boost to break into some high 15's. Not sure if thats really feasible though, as I've yet to see any turbo 4cyl S10 track times. ever.

Kool... I live right around the corner from the park where the show/camping will be held.. While i do not have an S series, you can bet money I will be there at some point..... Look for the car in my sig......

[redzq8]

Kool... I live right around the corner from the park where the show/camping will be held.. While i do not have an S series, you can bet money I will be there at some point..... Look for the car in my sig......

Sweet....I'll PM you when the show gets closer, perhaps we could meet up for some cold liquid beverage refreshments (beer ).

Pictures of the truck, and mods, and other fun stuff here

Mike

[redhotjamedjimi]

This is my file now with 2.1.16 everyone should be able to see it. Its a 2 bar fake that works 98% but should be a good enough for a starting point if you are having problems. Any questions u can pm or im me.

Some numbers are stock. Some are averaged. Some from a 02 s/c reflash.

[Julex]

This should help me with my GFs cavalier. I definitely not new to tuning boosted 4 banger just not used to changing N/A to Boosted. I understand what is going to be changed. Thanks redhot, I'd love to see more pics of the engine bay sometime. I'm just bummed cause I gained my GF stock 2200 02 cavy from 16.8 to 16.1 tuning, but now all those parameters are out the window lol. Good luck and thanks!

[redhotjamedjimi]

Heres a long awaited log with some boost. Pretty nice until a link came undone but its all good. Plus revisions on my 2 bar making it stockish under boost. And a pic of whats up.

[Russ K]

Where is the wideband? Your LTFT is up to 27% at the higher loads. Only .9* knock retard. Is that only 24 kpa map at idle?

Russ Kemp

[redhotjamedjimi]

its a 2 bar fake for one. thats the 23-24kpa idle. and goes to bout 10 psi with some overboost.

im getting a wideband this weekish but still need the pro. Im in need of money going to college and all. i noticed the ltft cause itll knock before it warms up but im trying not to base my ve on one wire o2s trims. if u think i should compensate maybe 50% i will.

[imphat0260]

After looking at your file, I have some questions/concerns on why you set some of your tables the way you did.....

Why is your PE Enable Delay RPM set to 0?? You commanded AFR under PE is also set to be pretty rich.. With your PE delay set to 0, I bet this thing is eating some fuel... I also noticed that your Closed Loop enable is set higher than normal..... I also took a look at your spark tables and VE tables, I know you are "faking a 2bar", but something just doesnt look right...

[redhotjamedjimi]

Russ k told me set my afr for pe to 12.00.

The pe to 0 is pointless you still need to push it 75% to kick in which i would never do less i needed it. Also i have my multi for the lower rpms set to 1.2 and 1.1 to lessen it.

The closed open loop is too make up for it being cold and when its lower when my o2 kicks in it reads to lean and stumbles idle. maybe cause of the stage 3 not all of my exhausrt passes my 02 sensor. though my downpipe is only 2 1/4 not 2 1/2.

when my taxes come in a week ill have the pro and wideband i promise itll help us all understand my wacky plans to rule the world with my truck.

Thanks for the input tho. And heres my latest file mostly the same but a couple new things.

[Julex]

Boosted cars 11.6-12.2 is a good area

[redhotjamedjimi]

Ive been playing around with my truck lately while having fueling problems at the low end with vacuum problems. Ive found that using the vac vs flow works tremendously with my problems. I figured at 105kpa compared to 34 kpa. it get around 150% flow so i made my table accordingly. Now my truck has the power it needs to keep running under all conditions and its easier to play with my spark wirth 2 bar.

I can finally say my 2 bar runs my timing and fueling. Hope this can help anyone out doing this 2 bar faking. Heres my file.

Btw you could use this without a rising rate fuel regulator to increase injector pulsewidth up to 14 psi boost. not too bad.

[redhotjamedjimi]

Hello people. I am still working on this beast and need advice.

1. When i put a 4 wire 02 sensor in my truck, can i use my post-cat heater power, and will the 02 be fine once i ground the o2 to the main ecm ground.

2. I hear that there no open loops files for our ecms, so can i use a pe enrich on at all time and have it go to stoich in the low end? would that keep my commmanded straight?