California Will Start Testing for ECU Tunes During Smog Checks

[dhoagland]

They are pretty savvy with that. It looks at the data stream on these to make sure PIDS are correct and other markers that make simulators are thing of the past. It would take a bit of magic to make all that work. LOTS of programming time.

I think I know the answer to this is going to be VIN not originally equipped with CVN...
But in the case of a DOD delete in an L99. If you flashed a legit file from a vehicle that didn't have DOD would that work, say an LS3?

[TheMechanic]

I think I know the answer to this is going to be VIN not originally equipped with CVN...
But in the case of a DOD delete in an L99. If you flashed a legit file from a vehicle that didn't have DOD would that work, say an LS3?

Wow that is a great question. So I'm thinking if you had the non DOD and then did a VIN change to the actual vehicle that does not change the tune BUT I don't know if that changes the CVN.

[TheMechanic]

Wonder what would happen to those with unlocked spare PCM's that were tuned? just flash back to stock on the spare PCM or would they need to install the factory PCM back ?

Don't think an unlocked PCM will change anything. It is looking at that software and data not the hardware. At least not yet. Along with that an unlocked module does not affect emissions. You could flash back to stock or have a spare module. The issue is if you do a DOD/AFM delete and the stock software is for a DOD than you will set codes for circuit and performance of said system. Then back in the same failboat for MIL light on and codes stored.

[oldbones]

Piggy backing an ecu?s can get you around this.

[bluegoat06]

Don't think an unlocked PCM will change anything. It is looking at that software and data not the hardware. At least not yet. Along with that an unlocked module does not affect emissions. You could flash back to stock or have a spare module. The issue is if you do a DOD/AFM delete and the stock software is for a DOD than you will set codes for circuit and performance of said system. Then back in the same failboat for MIL light on and codes stored.

Ty. Yes i can see how physically removing DOD will be an issue for those who did it as the dtc's will have to be disabled in the tune to avoid the dash lights. I can only imagine those with hi flow cats, aftermarket turbochargers/superchargers, stealth cam/heads, e85, aftermarket TC's etc etc. The Commies in Kali are really screwing up the modding market for a lot of people with this move. Holy cow. Now days i don't change cats or do DOD deletes and none of that stuff unless the mod has a carb sticker since i live in Kalifornia. I think a unlocked PCM like you said will have all cvn's and stuff from the original read PCM so hopefuly that should be ok. Worst case the original PCM is in the garage so we can always put that back, again assuming you haven't phsically tampered with parts that would work with your factory tune. If you did more likely you'll have some/lot of parts that would need to go back to stock as well. I get the chills just thinking about that option cause i know for some that would be a very expensive ordeal.

[2xLS1]

Unlocking (ugh I hate that term) a PCM, actually what you are doing is licensing it so you can use HP Tuners to write to it, doesn't change anything in the PCM's code. It just allows you to use HP Tuners to modify it.

[madmatt9471]

Question,

I am going to take my 2009 C6 Corvette over to the SMOG shop that I use after I finish with the "Project Back to Stock" to have them do a test -

I am going to use my stock tune that I saved on HP Tuners and that I have re-downloaded back into the Vette -

Will this or should this pass smog or will HP Tuners leaves a thumb print and make it fail?

Does it leave a HPT signature on it since it was downloaded and then saved and named as a file or will that not matter so as long as the stock file has not been altered at all? (ie. 2009 C6 Corvette Stock Tune Calibration)

It has all the stock criteria in the file, it should have all the CVN Checksums in there, since it's the original file -

All I know is that when I dropped my stock tune in with my mild cam there is no way that they would of passed it just by the sound - LOL All is good now with the stock cam back in!

Thanks,Matt

[TheMechanic]

Question,

I am going to take my 2009 C6 Corvette over to the SMOG shop that I use after I finish with the "Project Back to Stock" to have them do a test -

I am going to use my stock tune that I saved on HP Tuners and that I have re-downloaded back into the Vette -

Will this or should this pass smog or will HP Tuners leaves a thumb print and make it fail?

Does it leave a HPT signature on it since it was downloaded and then saved and named as a file or will that not matter so as long as the stock file has not been altered at all? (ie. 2009 C6 Corvette Stock Tune Calibration)

It has all the stock criteria in the file, it should have all the CVN Checksums in there, since it's the original file -

All I know is that when I dropped my stock tune in with my mild cam there is no way that they would of passed it just by the sound - LOL All is good now with the stock cam back in!

Thanks,Matt

It will be fine as long as all the monitors have run and there are no codes. As to "footprint" well sure on some there is a history of flashes. That from what I understand is not looked at currently. As an added note there is no way to determine what was done to it in the history unless it is a known software that has a known CVN/Checksum. Can't regulate what may or may not have been done to the software. Example. Setting the max speed of the vehicle. Who is to say you didn't put a lower speed rating tire on your Vette and needed to reduce the top speed in accordance with the speed rating of the tire for safety reasons. This does not and will not alter emissions in any way. That can not be regulated.

[dhoagland]

Question,

I am going to take my 2009 C6 Corvette over to the SMOG shop that I use after I finish with the "Project Back to Stock" to have them do a test -

I am going to use my stock tune that I saved on HP Tuners and that I have re-downloaded back into the Vette -

Will this or should this pass smog or will HP Tuners leaves a thumb print and make it fail?

Does it leave a HPT signature on it since it was downloaded and then saved and named as a file or will that not matter so as long as the stock file has not been altered at all? (ie. 2009 C6 Corvette Stock Tune Calibration)

It has all the stock criteria in the file, it should have all the CVN Checksums in there, since it's the original file -

All I know is that when I dropped my stock tune in with my mild cam there is no way that they would of passed it just by the sound - LOL All is good now with the stock cam back in!

Thanks,Matt

WOW.... Cam swap to pass emissions.
I'm assuming you must have had to put supporting mods to stock too (Intake, Exhaust). Damn thats a lot of work

[smwalker]

But in the case of a DOD delete in an L99. If you flashed a legit file from a vehicle that didn't have DOD would that work, say an LS3?

I am in a similar situation with an L77 that may need a DOD delete and I am wondering about ways around it and have the same thought as you.

I have 2 directions I am researching.

1. Get a CARB legal tune for a DOD delete kit. (wont help if you already did the DOD delete with non authorized parts) - Only company I see that offers something the CARB aftermarket database is Jasper Engines. But I believe, still need to confirm with them, that this kit only comes in one of thier complete rebuilt engines as an option. The Executive Order (linked below, says it comes in a kit but I can find no reference to a kit with Jasper) Comes with a Diablo tuner and an authorized tune that turns off the DOD.

http://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/...eo/d-391-1.pdf

Then the next one is one you referenced

2. Go through the Engine Change process with a similar car/truck that has the same engine but non DOD equipped from the factory.
In my Case a 2011 Chevrolet Caprice PPV with a 6.0 liter L77. Could I apply for an engine change Referee label using a factory ECU tune from a 2014 Chevrolet SS 6.2 LS3 (non AFM/DOD engine)
Or would I have to stay with the same displacement engine? Not sure. Would it matter if you applied for an engine change but the VIN on your block still matched the car? Like did you swap it or not??

But you would go through the engine change process then get a Referee Label and all future smog checks would be done off the label and not your VIN.
So when done off the label the label tells the computer what to look for not the Data gathered by all the VINS in the state.

Example Referee Label:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_0yBUI0D1oaM/Sg...barsticker.jpg

Until more companies come out with legal tunes to turn off the DOD I think an engine change might be our only way around things. But I imagine if you pull into the ref with your engine chopping away they are going to say I do not think that cam is a CARB legal replacement from the CARB legal DOD Kit. Because you know any approved cam is going to be a copy of the factory cam, mild as mayonnaise.

Info on engine Change Process Appendix D: https://www.bar.ca.gov/pdf/Smog_Chec...ence_Guide.pdf


EDIT: Found another CA CARB legal way to do the DOD delete but when I went to the site to look for the part number said it was not available for sale in CA!!
HA! CARB legal and cant even get it in CA!!

http://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/...eo/d-752-8.pdf

https://www.livernoismotorsports.com...word=LPP802116

EDIT Again - Emailed LMS they confirmed it is for sale in CA thier site just wrong. And They have a kit for most all of the GM cars with AFM.

And I would assume thier tune Filename and Checksum will come out the same every time and the BAR computer will recognize it as a CARB legal tune. Even if it fails it you would have the receipt and Executive order to take to the ref to prove you followed the law.

[TheMechanic]

So when it comes to "engine change" that means an engine combination that was never offered for sale on that vehicle. If you did an engine swap of one that could have been optioned than you are good to go. If it was never an option for that car or truck it would be considered an engine change. In those cases, yes it would need to go to the referee and get a referee label. I remember about 10 to 15 years ago it was not only VERY difficult to even get an appointment for the referee. Then it was up to them what devices they wanted on it. VERY subjective. I think they were limiting the number of appointments due to the massive amount of kit cars that were being fabricated at the time. Maybe things have changed since then. You know Kalifornia government getting better and more efficient. Hahahaha.

[akw408]

Question,

I am going to take my 2009 C6 Corvette over to the SMOG shop that I use after I finish with the "Project Back to Stock" to have them do a test -

I am going to use my stock tune that I saved on HP Tuners and that I have re-downloaded back into the Vette -

Will this or should this pass smog or will HP Tuners leaves a thumb print and make it fail?

Does it leave a HPT signature on it since it was downloaded and then saved and named as a file or will that not matter so as long as the stock file has not been altered at all? (ie. 2009 C6 Corvette Stock Tune Calibration)

It has all the stock criteria in the file, it should have all the CVN Checksums in there, since it's the original file -

All I know is that when I dropped my stock tune in with my mild cam there is no way that they would of passed it just by the sound - LOL All is good now with the stock cam back in!

Thanks,Matt

Did you get a chance to try this out? I'm curious because I had the stock tune on my C5 when I went for a SMOG test a couple weeks back (backstory, the car had been tuned with LS1 Edit but then later I restored the stock PCM), and it failed due to "OBD System Checks".

[akw408]

CVN/Checksum number will change from a stock configuration. How do they/BAR know? BAR forced the manufacturers to give them the alphanumeric numbers. As an example you can go here and plug in your VIN. https://tis2web.service.gm.com/tis2web It will give you the CVN's for the operating software as well as other sub programs. Even the most minor small modification of any kind will make the number change. Take any stock tune and look at the calibration details and you can see the software number and CVN. Compare to what is on for link and it will be the same. Now take your stock and modify it in only one single spot. Let's say change the timing by one single degree in one single spot of the timing table Literally the smallest mod you could perform. Now take a look and you will see the CVN will change. That is how they get you. Even cheap scan tools show the CVN/Checksum. You can return you vehicle to stock software and correct the CVN but lets say you did a DOD/AFM delete. Now the stock software will catch the mod and throw a code before or during an I/M monitor test. Bam you got a MIL light and corresponding code. Now you fail for that. They got you coming and going. They have been looking at and collecting data for this for years now. They have prosecuted shops and tech's for "CleanPiping" and now they are "CleanPlugging". It's going to get interesting. Some people have registered their vehicles in Arizona. Problem there is if you have a California drivers license and get pulled over with a registered vehicle from Arizona they write you a ticket. Kalifornia doesn't want to lose all that registration money to another state.

Thanks for the link. I went to this site and found that the OS for my PCM isn't matching, I guess they think my car somehow should have a newer OS version. No idea how they thought my car would have received this update. Anyway, with this info, I went to the repository and found a stock tune with the matching OS. I'll write it in and see if I pass SMOG this time.

[dhoagland]

Thanks for the link. I went to this site and found that the OS for my PCM isn't matching, I guess they think my car somehow should have a newer OS version. No idea how they thought my car would have received this update. Anyway, with this info, I went to the repository and found a stock tune with the matching OS. I'll write it in and see if I pass SMOG this time.

Keep us posted

[onebigburb]

In all reality this is a joke. Ecm/ecu all run off voltage and resistance. Any sensor can be removed at any time to trick the operating system into thinking it is ok. It requires time but before we got fancy with tuners this is what people did. You can still do this an pass. If you know the data they are looking for you can make your system appear as if it is functioning and run a stand alone controller. All this will do is put company's like hp out of business an force the aftermarket world under ground so to speak. What are they going to do out law resistors next? Seriously come on here...

[TheMechanic]

In all reality this is a joke. Ecm/ecu all run off voltage and resistance. Any sensor can be removed at any time to trick the operating system into thinking it is ok. It requires time but before we got fancy with tuners this is what people did. You can still do this an pass. If you know the data they are looking for you can make your system appear as if it is functioning and run a stand alone controller. All this will do is put company's like hp out of business an force the aftermarket world under ground so to speak. What are they going to do out law resistors next? Seriously come on here...

Uh.... You are not going to fool a PCM into thinking it has DOD/AFM when it doesn't without software modification. PCM disables cylinders and see's the misfire through lack of acceleration of the particular cylinder it is disabling. This isn't just throw a resister into the a CTS to trick the pcm for a colder thermostat. The modern OBD2 systems monitors do extensive road dyno tests. Something as simple as the CTS coolant temp sensor will be checked against the IAT sensor after a extended shut down cycle to see if they match. I have 2 1/2 decades at a GM dealer with over $100K worth of GM schools in Burbank. We are not dealing with stupid people.

[Shrek]

... you can make your system appear as if it is functioning and run a stand alone controller...

Run a standalone controller ???

On a production vehicle ???

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[danmw2003]

Betting nitrous might be making a huge comeback due to this

[TheMechanic]

Betting nitrous might be making a huge comeback due to this

In Kalifornia even having the bottle connected is a violation.

[onebigburb]

Uh.... You are not going to fool a PCM into thinking it has DOD/AFM when it doesn't without software modification. PCM disables cylinders and see's the misfire through lack of acceleration of the particular cylinder it is disabling. This isn't just throw a resister into the a CTS to trick the pcm for a colder thermostat. The modern OBD2 systems monitors do extensive road dyno tests. Something as simple as the CTS coolant temp sensor will be checked against the IAT sensor after a extended shut down cycle to see if they match. I have 2 1/2 decades at a GM dealer with over $100K worth of GM schools in Burbank. We are not dealing with stupid people.

You may not be able to on a dod ls. I dont know never was into ls scene, So the ls fad finally goes away. There is alot of other manufactures out there. Just simply saying think outside the box, even if it means going old school. Never said any one was stuiped.

@shrek, you can run an os like mega or others leave your factory ecm in play, requires second set of sensors an tricking factory into thinking all is good.

Also I do not live in comifornia not sure how they do the inspections there exactly. Let me guess kit cars are illegal too?