Your fueling needs to be spot on everywhere (including cold start) to keep the E content stable.
Your fueling needs to be spot on everywhere (including cold start) to keep the E content stable.
Here's my current tune.....
I recently found out the Hellcat uses 58lb/hr injectors so I transferred the inj pw vs mass settings from a Hellcat tune to my current tune. I figured at the same PSI rating a simple 6lb/hr difference won't hurt. Now I have to adjust the injector PW/ offset to get things happy. Currently the injectors are working like they should and the pcm is finally registering 0% alcohol as I've been running 90 octane Non-Ethanol for weeks now. As HemiTuna stated, when you are running Non-Ethanol, if the fuel trims are stating you need more fuel to meet the commanded A/F ratio, it will start changing the tested Ethanol content and assumes since there is more fuel needed, you have more Ethanol in the fuel. Now that my fuel trims were pulling at least 10% fuel in the STFT the pcm thinks I'm running no ethanol. Once I get the fuel trims set correctly to keep the pcm happy as I'm running 1.0% ethanol according to Innovate Motorsports gauge, I should finally get a base setting using the 52lb/hr injectors on Non-Ethanol.
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Here's a log file from tonight. I figured I would give it some drive time to see where things are. This is running 52lb/hr Bosch 0280158187 injectors on my engine. The A/f's at 7000rpm are around where I want it and this is a tune designed for 93octane and E85. I'm currently using 90 octane Non-Ethanol......
I have a 1/4 tank of Non-Ethanol left and I'm going to leave this tune where its at for now. The cams need to be readjusted, but I'n the next day or so I will drop in some 93 octane that contains 10% ethanol and see what happens to the tune then.
Note: My Inj Pw Vs Fuel Mass settings are pulled from a Hellcat tune. My Inj PW settings are from Hass here on the forum that he uses as a baseline for large injectors which I haven't messed with yet.
Another note, the reasoning for installing these large injectors was I was running low on E85 fuel at 7000rpm so I needed to increase the fuel flow.
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Here's another run still using the 90 Non-Ethanol on a 93 tune.....I made a couple copy and paste adjustments and it seems the 4th gear lag is gone as the car keeps pulling hard beyond 100mph but I let off as it's dark outside and I don't need a Deer or a cop to get in the way....lol
I actually like how this tune works, definitely a seat of the pants feel and again this is on low octane and the cams can still be tuned......
Note: At 2:05:28:11 till 2:05:43:594 is when I opened it up trying to manually shift at 7000 and it shows I may have shifted earlier but I'm pretty sure I wast in either 4th gear prime or 5th gear when hitting 105mph with means the 4th gear lag is gone.
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Last edited by brr; 08-23-2021 at 12:13 AM.
Ok, this gets interesting.....
I now installed around 6-7gallons of 93 octane that's got 10% claimed ethanol. I had about 3 gallons of 90 Non-Ethanol still in the tank. The Innovate Motorsports Gauge is reading an average of 5% alcohol in the fuel now. The log shows a range of 5% to 15% alcohol content depending on rpm based on the pcm.
So what this has me thinking is the pcm has no clue what the alcohol content is unless its based on A/F ratio which still doesn't aparently tell the pcm the correct alcohol content. So I'm under the assumption with my FlexFuel vehicle the E85 tune may never be seen as the pcm does not know exactly what the alcohol content of the fuel is.
Is this possibly why there is no specific Flex fuel tune available? Hence why tunes are offered as 93 octane or E85.....?
Based on my logs from 90Non-Ethanol to 93w/10% ethanol the pcm does not recognize the actual ethanol content correctly.....
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Never gonna calculate E content correctly with trims like that.
The STFT have to be within a few percent of zero at all times (except maybe during transients) or you will chase your tail endlessly.
It needs to be tuned to perfection until you don't really need closed loop STFT corrections, then it will flex like a champ.
You can get it to correctly read E content to within a few % if you're persistent, but it aint easy or else everyone would be doing flex tunes.
Last edited by Hemituna; 08-24-2021 at 04:22 PM.
Thanks for the reply!Originally Posted by Hemituna
I guess I'll play around with the tune to get the fuel trims corrected and try to get the tune to match the alcohol content on the gauge before using E85 again......
Locally:
90octane Non-Ethanol - $3.79gal
93octane 10% - 3.49gal
E85 - $2.57gal (tested @ 80%ethanol year round)
Very timely topic for my Jeep project. I?ve got a home brew supercharger that I?m adding to my 3.8L pos engine.
I?ve upgraded to a similar injectors as the OP. However, my approach to get things working was different. I just scaled the pulse width and fuel mass tables by the ratio of lb/h for my original and new injectors. Specifically, my original injectors were 24 lb/h compared to my new one of 54 lb/h so I multiplied the fuel mass vs pulse width by 2.26 and divided the pw vs file mass by same. Engine started right up and runs fine. I set the min pw = 0.272 based on some specs I found somewhere. I did not mess with the offset table.
What are the disadvantages to just scaling these table to account for the increased fuel delivery per unit time?
I should that I?m new to tuning. So pardon my ignorance. Thanks
Last edited by thomasjones; 08-25-2021 at 10:32 AM.
I'm a newbie also so don't feel bad.....
I'm still trying to figure out how to subtract or divide numbers using HPtuners as there's only the plus or multiply option.....lol
I think I'm slowly getting there.....
Currently the pcm thinks there's 23% alcohol when there's around 9-10% in the tank as tested. What really sucks is in the log when you see the A/F's hit around 7.0, that's when the Innovate Motorsports gauge resets. I've been having this problem with it lately and all connections are secure. I'm going to double check again all the connections to the Innovate EFC-1 before I contact them as the gauge is starting to randomly restart on its own. But the log tonight is listed below with the current adjustments I have. The common Pentastar bog seems to be gone and
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Here's the latest file....
I haven't played with the fuel or spark lately, I just adjusted the cams at WOT based on my previous logs.........
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Been playing around again and of course learning as I go. My adjustments are based on the butt dyno and logging since I don't have dyno access. My adjustments are based on day to day driving and once and a while late night drives with a police scanner and a radar detector going as the 1:1 gear ratio in my car is 5th gear. 4th gear seems to be the gear I can log the best in as I'm breaking triple digits in 4th let alone trying to grab 5th gear without gaining to much attention at night. Yes I do this on a safe road and I double check to make sure there is no traffic for safety of others and myself.
Anyways, here's a copy of my latest log but this time I topped off with 10 gallons off E85(tested to be 83%) mixed with 2 gallons of 93 w/10% from the pump. The Innovate gauge is reading 67% ethanol and the pcm is reading around 78% ethanol.
Note:
True E85 - $2.56gal
93 w/10% - $3.62-$3.89gal
This is local near me in NY
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Last edited by brr; 09-17-2021 at 01:04 AM.
ok, I've been driving a few days now using E85 and I love how the car is driving. But based on the factory TQ performance through the RPM range I may have peaked higher than stock based on the HPtuners calculations but the TQ drops rapidly pass 4500rpm. Now I'm also watching the ignition timing from my previous tunes (from another tuner) Vs stock and the numbers dont seem right. WOT spark with E85 has a totally different map than the so called tuners map. I'm almost wondering if I should reload the stock map and go from there as the tuners map seems like it was adjusted using an HPtuners smoothing option and that's why the timing seems linear......
The first image is stock while the second is from a tuner.....
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Here's a quick log using the factory alcohol timing Vs the tuners timing. Overall the factory E85 timing made better overall power through the power band, so I'm going to adjust timing based on the factory timing Vs the tuners timing.....
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We'll here's my latest E85 tune using the 55lb injectors. I'm quite happy so far with the drivability and the torque. There's a few bugs to work out like the timing issue causing a bog when leaving a stop as I can see in the log file. Also start up is a little rich causing it not to start every once and a while unless I hold the throttle down to WOT....but these are little bugs. The TQ at around 4500-5000rpm is nice and the car pulls strong. The calculated TQ based on the software as a reference, I don't know what the true numbers are at the wheels. If the calculate numbers are higher, im assuming I'm doing something correctly....lol
Currently the calculate numbers are higher than the documented numbers from 4700rpm-6690rpm...but again the hptuners calculated TQ based on the software pid's of course may not be accurate. I'm basing the numbers on a printout from www.automobile-catalog.com
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We'll my NYS inspection ends September 30th.....
My problem.....Emission monitors me and the tech never ran across before:
Fuel System - Continuous
Catalyst - Continuous
Oxygen Sensor - Non-Continuous
We are currently trying to figure out what the heck these are. They don't throw P codes so I can't do anything that route using the HPsoftware. I did find out that my CAT temperatures requested for my tune were almost 75-100deg F lower than the stock tune. So I changed them back to the factory settings and hopefully tomorrow I'll find out a result. I also switched from 78% tested E85 to 93 octane and I still test at 25% ethanol after running the car down to the "Fuel" light. Tonight I did a road test and surprisingly using the 93 octane that registers according to HPTuners 45% ethanol, the car pulled as hard if not harder than it did on 78% Ethanol. I'll do more drive time tomorrow hopefully getting the emission monitors to set.
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Here is a copy of my emission tune that passed NYS emission's using 55lb/hr injectors on a E50 tune.....
Here's my latest......
Since the weather change here in Western New York and the temperatures hovering around 30F....I had to make a couple changes to get the remote start to work as there was just too much Alcohol for the colder weather. According to my gauge I've got the winter blend of E50 in the car right now. I adjusted the tune a little bit and according to the HPT software it's calculations are currently 327hp @ 6703rpm and 283Ft/Lbs @ 4089rpm....Here's a copy of the log and tune.....
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And here's a copy of what I did tonight:
I raised the commanded flywheel TQ based on throttle input, so 60% throttle commanded 60% TQ, 90% throttle commanded 90% TQ, the numbers have dropped based on the log files. So I'm looking at changing the commanded flywheel % TQ back to the previous tune but raising it in the midrange a little bit more....also the A/F's at higher rpm's started getting too rich as I like running around 11.5's at 6500rpm and higher....
Attachment 115716
Note: the log files are too large apparently to upload but the peak numbers were 314hp @ 6731rpm and 281ft/lbs @ 4200rpm.......
So adjusting the commanded TQ based on throttle % does not help as HP numbers dropped a lot in the upper RPM range......
ok, I've had some people questioning the HPTuners calculations for power and how accurate it is. I'm starting to question it now also. If I could afford to go to an actual dyno to compare the numbers but as a family man I can't justify the extra $ right now to compare the numbers to a true dyno......
Currently according to the calculations of HPtuners scanner tool software here is my current numbers:
344hp @ 7316rpm
276ft/lbs @ 4247rpm
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