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Thread: firm shifts?

  1. #1
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    firm shifts?

    2008 chrysler 300c 5.7 with eagle heads,220/230 cam, LT headers and a 2600 stall FTI convert. paid for tune and not happy with it because there is very little change. im looking for firm shifts and better throttle response. can anybody HELP?
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    Last edited by Turbo2gnx; 08-11-2021 at 09:47 AM. Reason: add the log
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  2. #2
    Tuner fumanchu182's Avatar
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    Do you have any logs or data of the car at WOT?
    Hellcat PB > ET: 10.092, MPH: 135.650, 60': 1.492, R/T: .000
    Bone Stock Scat Pack PB > ET: 11.612, MPH: 119.52, 60': 1.634, R/T: .000 (gone but not forgotten).

    https://youtube.com/user/fumanchu182

  3. #3
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    not yet, not comfortable trying wot. i changed shift pressure and timing and the car is feeling better, still nothing suggesting wot. I still feeling slippage in the gears but no burning of the fluids and clean pan. Changing of the pressure and timing removed the slop between the motor and tranny, now i need to get a better pull in the gears. hours of scrolling forums and youtube i played with the numbers and things got better.
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  4. #4
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    a photo of the car before and after or the logs? i have a few logs now and im try to interpret what im watching. i understand how both the motor and tranny works but having problems with learning what sections and subs to adjust to get what im looking for? im seeing tq now in the logs before i would on see the most were 15lbs of tq., now im seeing 100+ tq but the tq goes to negative during the pull and it is felt! once i can get it to keep the tq applied and can feel to pull, i will feel safer to take it for a wot and then to the dyno for a real tune. the guy i paid to tune this has sent me tunes from other people and my tunes were all over the place, im no tuner by far! but just watching videos and the help i get from forums ive produced a better tune? well the car has no more sloppy shifts and now the vehicle feels like its 1 piece not disconnected from each other. this tuner made a bad stain on email tuning for me!! he got paid and i got trash and all i got in reply was all looks good to him and we are done. i could take a trip to visit this guy but that would lead to issues. the thing was that he was recommended by a few people here on the forums! sad to see that theres not much help for the 08 NAG1 5 SPEED TRANS.
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  5. #5
    Tuner fumanchu182's Avatar
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    Attach a copy of your current tune please. I will look at the tune and recommend some changes to make.
    Hellcat PB > ET: 10.092, MPH: 135.650, 60': 1.492, R/T: .000
    Bone Stock Scat Pack PB > ET: 11.612, MPH: 119.52, 60': 1.634, R/T: .000 (gone but not forgotten).

    https://youtube.com/user/fumanchu182

  6. #6
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    the spark is all over the place. this is a tune that was paid for and the tuner said that the tune is good and my issues are a bad transmission!!
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    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  7. #7
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    Here are some things I noticed in the tune, I am not your tuner and the ultimate responsibility is to hash it out with the tuner and get it right. If he is unwilling to help you then please use the information I provide to educate yourself and hopefully make the changes yourself.

    Engine -> Torque Management -> General -> Auto Trans TqMgt: All three are disabled, something has to tell torque management how to react, you can't just turn all this off and tune it out. I recommend enabling "Use Spark".
    Transmission -> Torque Management -> Upshift -> Torque Reduction: All four are disabled, once again something has to tell torque management how to reach, I have never seen anyone tune it out this way. Recommend enabling all 4.
    Transmission -> Torque Management -> Upshift -> Torque Reduction: 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 4-5, these tables seem really really off. I recommend finding a stock read for your car and entering "80" in the bottom right three cells. Then selecting the whole table and doing "Interpolate Between Vertical Bounds". Repeat this with the same number for the rest of the tables.

    It is important to understand that the above is a repeatable event, if you don't like it go further, select the bottom right three and do 74. I do not recommend going below 74 unless you want an agressive TCM tune. Transmissions have a fixed life.

    Transmission -> Torque Management -> General -> Torque Limit: Your Max Engine setting currently reads 295lb-ft, this is super low. On a stock calibration from a 2006 5.7 this is 443lb-ft. If you have a good known torque reading from a dyno you can make this 100 lb-ft higher than that number.

    But this is where I se some serious red flags. Output Limit and Driveshaft Limit all have lower than normal values (compared to a stock tune) and then you have a ridiculously high Output Limit 4wd Low value. 2951 more lb-ft. Is this a 300c rock crawler with AWD? I recommend changing them back to their stock values if you can get them. Your vs. Gear values are also maxed out to nutters, why do you need 3,687.81 lb-ft of torque in reverse.

    It's at this point I stopped looking at your tune. I really think you need to have a chat with your tuner and ask what is going on. I'm not going to say anything derogatory as I am just trying to help but this is where I have to stop because I'm seeing a lot of red flags.
    Hellcat PB > ET: 10.092, MPH: 135.650, 60': 1.492, R/T: .000
    Bone Stock Scat Pack PB > ET: 11.612, MPH: 119.52, 60': 1.634, R/T: .000 (gone but not forgotten).

    https://youtube.com/user/fumanchu182

  8. #8
    Tuner fumanchu182's Avatar
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    Also not to leave you high and dry you did ask about firmer shifts. The place to research that is under Trans -> Shift Pressures -> General -> Fill Pressure 1.

    Gear 2: b2, k1, k3
    Gear 3: b2, k1, k2
    Gear 4: k1, k2, k3
    Gear 5: b1, k2, k3

    If you want to make the 1-2 firmer for example, select each individual clutch and add 2 psi. Repeat this for each clutch that you need to modify. Your current readings were low, really low. Additionally everything in Shiftpressures -> General seems off. Good luck man!
    Last edited by fumanchu182; 08-18-2021 at 02:09 AM.
    Hellcat PB > ET: 10.092, MPH: 135.650, 60': 1.492, R/T: .000
    Bone Stock Scat Pack PB > ET: 11.612, MPH: 119.52, 60': 1.634, R/T: .000 (gone but not forgotten).

    https://youtube.com/user/fumanchu182

  9. #9
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    the tuner has cut all communication. his last reply was, its a great tune and it my transmission that is bad. i GREATLY appreciate any and all help!!! IT IS NEEDED! i told my son that we would have it ready soon to start taking it to the track and get my son into racing, im loosing on that and trying! i wanted to buy some books to learn to tune correctly but the learning school isnt the place from what i heard, not teaching on why they changed what was changed? i was told by many not to buy the book. i want to learn how to tune. again any help is appreciated greatly!
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  10. #10
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    Sucks when tuners are like that. Wish I could help but your transmission is outside of my knowledge, all my transmission knowledge is on the RFE transmissions and 48RE transmission. The tuning school book is nothing more than a book on their personal preferences for shift points, lockup points and half the duty cycle for shifts. Even at that, explaining why their settings is their personal preference, well, it?s like having to explain why anyone has any personal preference in anything, we all just like what we like. Transmission and engine tuning does boil down to a lot of personal preference, everyone likes different things or wants different things.

  11. #11
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    torque converter/ apply, the speed is oss or turbine or rpm?
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  12. #12
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    yes it sucks!
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    Sucks when tuners are like that. Wish I could help but your transmission is outside of my knowledge, all my transmission knowledge is on the RFE transmissions and 48RE transmission. The tuning school book is nothing more than a book on their personal preferences for shift points, lockup points and half the duty cycle for shifts. Even at that, explaining why their settings is their personal preference, well, it?s like having to explain why anyone has any personal preference in anything, we all just like what we like. Transmission and engine tuning does boil down to a lot of personal preference, everyone likes different things or wants different things.
    Do you have the books? I have the books and have had a great experience with them.
    Hellcat PB > ET: 10.092, MPH: 135.650, 60': 1.492, R/T: .000
    Bone Stock Scat Pack PB > ET: 11.612, MPH: 119.52, 60': 1.634, R/T: .000 (gone but not forgotten).

    https://youtube.com/user/fumanchu182

  14. #14
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    the training school books? no, i was told not to because of the price didnt match the information. i heard this from a few people here on hp and others that ive spoken with on social media. if i could get a set of used but complete book for the right price i would but as of now, im going by ear and the help from the members here on HP Tuners. what is a safe spark timing for these creatures?
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  15. #15
    Tuner fumanchu182's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo2gnx View Post
    the training school books? no, i was told not to because of the price didnt match the information. i heard this from a few people here on hp and others that ive spoken with on social media. if i could get a set of used but complete book for the right price i would but as of now, im going by ear and the help from the members here on HP Tuners. what is a safe spark timing for these creatures?
    I looked at your WOT Spark table (44631) and it is potent. Your part throttle was not changed comparted to a 2006 5.7 R/T Stock read. There's not just one table you need to change. Tables that you might want to look at involve:
    IAT Spark Hot Table
    Part Throttle Ref IAT Table
    Baro Spark Table
    Throttle Rate Spark Table
    FA COT/EOT Max Enrich Table.

    They all work in unison to deliver spark advance to the system.
    Hellcat PB > ET: 10.092, MPH: 135.650, 60': 1.492, R/T: .000
    Bone Stock Scat Pack PB > ET: 11.612, MPH: 119.52, 60': 1.634, R/T: .000 (gone but not forgotten).

    https://youtube.com/user/fumanchu182

  16. #16
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    I also checked your fuel sitation. The tuner has you programmed from 12.50 to 11.98 which is good as that is an acceptable range for Heads/Cam.
    Hellcat PB > ET: 10.092, MPH: 135.650, 60': 1.492, R/T: .000
    Bone Stock Scat Pack PB > ET: 11.612, MPH: 119.52, 60': 1.634, R/T: .000 (gone but not forgotten).

    https://youtube.com/user/fumanchu182

  17. #17
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    im looking at the spark plus and 2 cylinders have bent spark plugs but only 1 in each cylinder. guessing lands are blown off? im sure its from the high spark.
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  18. #18
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    Thank you! the shifts are better. what are the dangers of going too high with the pressures other than blowing a seal? also why would the transmission be set this way stock, doesnt that create heat and pre-wear on the clutches? Thanks again.
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  19. #19
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    Don't know what pressures are too high. Firm shift, less slippage, less heat.

  20. #20
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    yes that is correct. i only added 4lbs to it and it made a world of difference. now im seeing low torque on engine and tranny sides. i changed the spark from max spark and high spark on PT from from high 30's-40's to 18 max, could that be the reason? motor sounds better, no more marbles on the revs.
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.