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Thread: torque convertor apply/release

  1. #1
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    torque convertor apply/release

    help with tcc.1st and 2nd are all set to 3k to apply and release. not much of a pull in any gears. and downshifts are unnoticed. HELP?
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  2. #2
    same here and i have a 3800 rpm stall tcc

  3. #3
    I'd first map out YOUR true stall speed. Your Engine's torque and rear gear may stall a few hundred RPM different than your TC advertised RPM. Do this by turning off the clutch entirely in 1st gear and datalogging a few launches from 0mph with a HOT trans. Note the RPM when Vehicle speed registers 1-2mph. This is your True Stall Speed.

    I'd set 1st gear only to lockup ~300-500rpm over stall, but every other gear to be locked up nearly all the time. Our test car with a 5.7l + Comp HRT Stage 3 cam picked up over .4 in the 1/8th with a 3800rpm Stall T/C over stock.

  4. #4
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    greatly appreciate your reply! ill try this in the morning, what should my release be set at for 1-5?
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by duster360 View Post
    I'd first map out YOUR true stall speed. Your Engine's torque and rear gear may stall a few hundred RPM different than your TC advertised RPM. Do this by turning off the clutch entirely in 1st gear and datalogging a few launches from 0mph with a HOT trans. Note the RPM when Vehicle speed registers 1-2mph. This is your True Stall Speed.

    I'd set 1st gear only to lockup ~300-500rpm over stall, but every other gear to be locked up nearly all the time. Our test car with a 5.7l + Comp HRT Stage 3 cam picked up over .4 in the 1/8th with a 3800rpm Stall T/C over stock.
    thanks for the help brother . then what should we pot on apply and release tables for the 3800stall tcc . knowing that my rear gear is 3.92 ratio on auto nag 1 >

    thanks again .

  6. #6
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    thanks for the info. just getting back to try this, what should i put as release for 1st gear and should i zero out apply for 2nd and up and what release would be recommended?
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  7. #7
    Senior Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    If you don?t want it to apply the tc for a gear, max out the lockup and unlock table for that gear. It?s based on turbine speed so the lower the speed you put in, the lower the speed required to engage it and release it and vise versa.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    If you don?t want it to apply the tc for a gear, max out the lockup and unlock table for that gear. It?s based on turbine speed so the lower the speed you put in, the lower the speed required to engage it and release it and vise versa.
    its not about we want i think its about what is the best for this tcs lool ? as example a 3800 stal speed with a 3.92 rear gear on a nag1 . what is the best performance and drive feel for this when it comes to app and rel tables .

    thanks ^^

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    Every vehicle is different and has different needs as does what a person is looking for and trying to achieve and prefers. There is no set definitive answer as to what a lockup and release point or shift point must be set at. Too many variables and comes down to adjust, test and repeat till desired results are achieved.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    Every vehicle is different and has different needs as does what a person is looking for and trying to achieve and prefers. There is no set definitive answer as to what a lockup and release point or shift point must be set at. Too many variables and comes down to adjust, test and repeat till desired results are achieved.
    yes this is the eye of the truth , but is there any where to start from ?

  11. #11
    Senior Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    The above by duster360 is a good starting point. For anything not WOT your release you?ll want it high enough that it doesn?t want to stay locked too low and start lugging down the engine with running near idle speed with a locked converter. WOT is the easy part, it?s everything under that that takes time to refine to personal taste and driveability.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    The above by duster360 is a good starting point. For anything not WOT your release you?ll want it high enough that it doesn?t want to stay locked too low and start lugging down the engine with running near idle speed with a locked converter. WOT is the easy part, it?s everything under that that takes time to refine to personal taste and driveability.
    dose he mean that maxing the app and rel for first gear and zero the others ? is zero app and rel will make the tcc locked all the time ? i got my tune as super as possible in all matters but when it comes to tcc i didnt understand the tables there and what the effect of them .

    thanks again

  13. #13
    Senior Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    Well with the RFE transmissions, the lockup and unlock tables are based off of throttle position and turbine speed, turbine speed does not equal engine speed unless it is locked up. So as I said above, you want your tables set high enough that it will release before it will lug down the engine. If locked up and the lockup and unlock tables are set to zero, well, I?m pretty sure zero rpm would mean the engine is no longer rotating. You will literally be trying to pull the engine down to zero rpms with the converter locked up at a stop.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim P View Post
    Well with the RFE transmissions, the lockup and unlock tables are based off of throttle position and turbine speed, turbine speed does not equal engine speed unless it is locked up. So as I said above, you want your tables set high enough that it will release before it will lug down the engine. If locked up and the lockup and unlock tables are set to zero, well, I?m pretty sure zero rpm would mean the engine is no longer rotating. You will literally be trying to pull the engine down to zero rpms with the converter locked up at a stop.

    well i found out that when i maxed all tables the car was going faster or it feel like it . so ya for now all my tables are set to max .
    thanks bro

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    rpm was @2500 @2 mph. im also still seeing 1500< rpm slip during and after shifts! the car is pulling better than before but still no strong continuous pull throughout the gears.
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo2gnx View Post
    rpm was @2500 @2 mph. im also still seeing 1500< rpm slip during and after shifts! the car is pulling better than before but still no strong continuous pull throughout the gears.
    well for this i did zero all slip tables and maxed all tcc tables

  17. #17
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    max out the apply/release tables? the slip tables are zeroed. with that, still getting the slip and no real pull throughout the gear. next i got to change somewhere for idle tq, car is trying to more at red lights.
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.

  18. #18
    Senior Tuner Jim P's Avatar
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    Something to keep in mind, transmission mappings in HP Tuners is very likely nowhere near 100% completely mapped out so there is going to be a lot of things you can?t see that you can be fighting against.

  19. #19
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    so far dont matter what i change im getting a lot of slipping and loss of pull in all gears. cant find the reasons for the slipp. will keep playing around until i figure it out or burnup the clutches. question, the clutch packs, how many lbs can i add to them? thats what made a difference but scared to any higher, i tried to upload a image and it didnt to show the numbers 1st gear-K3=4341,B1=3014,B2=3204 2nd gear-K1=2718,K3=2666,B2=1969 3rd gear-K2=1662,B2=1339 4th gear-K1=1413,K2=2517,K3=1386 5th gear,K2=2099,K3=1156,B1=805
    By the prickle of my thumb something wicked this way comes!2008 Chrysler 300c! 2013 heads/220/230 comp cam/LTheaders/FTI 2600 stall converter.