C6Z06 Ls7 mild cam tuning by myself

[Pierrel]

Hi everyone!

Alright, put a smaller camshaft in my C6Z06 because i didnt like the big one i used to have
Back at trying to tune this one myself, while learing new things every day.
Specs
Ls7 @ 11.5:1 (8.62:1 DCR)
230/246 .634 115+4 LSA (very similar to a BTR stage 2 LS7 cam). 8 degree overlap
Heads cleaned about 0.010
Tr6 plugs @ 0.040 gap
Fast 102 intake, 92mm TB
Stock injectors
1 7/8 headers, with cats
WB installed in one of the headers
Monster LTS-1 twin clutch during break-in.

I started with turning my current tune more into what a stock C6Z06 LS7 tune looks like. I've had multiple tuners and myself do all different things to the last tune I had in the car to tame the old camshaft. Time for a fresh start.

I have not done any WOT pulls to reach higher MAF frequencies due to 500 mile break in period of the new clutch. Figured id start with getting idle and low load fuel dialed in first
MAF tuning
Dialed in MAF using STFT only, then tried OL tuning with WB. Corrected fuel to be within 2%. See attached log. Dont know why its commanding less than Llambda 1, I?ve looked for a correction factor but havent found the right one.

When i turn CL running back on, STFT?s say im 2-4% lean, even with WB saying pretty much 0%
False lean due to overlap? Or is STFT not to trust depending on gear?

VVE Tuning
Tried running OL during VE tuning. It had me remove +10% fuel multiple times from the low load sections. Even with ?multiply by %?, after the 3rd time, it didn't feel right. Am I entering OL Tuning the correct way?

Car is in pure MAF mode right now.
Car fires up alright, but bucks or acts jerky on low load throttle. No difference if I run 24 deg timing in HIGH/LOW OCT table, or 35 deg. 35 deg definitely makes the car feel alot more alive.
When tuning in OL, this phenomenon seems to dissapear almost completely.

Attached 3 logs and 1 tune file which i base the OL MAF and VE tuning on

Really appreciate all the help and info available on these forums!
Thanks!

[Pierrel]

So I've been trying to find/use good filters to avoid bad data when OL tuning the MAF with Wideband.
Setup car in OL with DFCO off. Double checked in scanner to run pure OL mode.

([2111.156.slope(3000)] < 1 AND [2111.156 .slope(-3000)] < 1 ) AND [50010.241 ]>70

With 2111.156 being TPS %, and 50010.241 ECT in Celsius.

Shouldnt that filter out TPS movements bigger than 1% over a period of 3 seconds? And give me steady state data only?
When I apply it to the scanner and start logging, I can see it changing the histograms as soon as I change TPS. And not wait for 3 seconds.

Or should I scan using no filter, and then use filters during playback? Read somewhere that -slope values can only be used in playback?

Also , I seem to be getting different errors depending on which gear I use ?
Thanks!

[dhoagland]

I'm no filter expert, but I'm 99% sure slope works while live scanning
Do you have spaces in your filter as you have typed above?

If so maybe try this
([2111.156.slope(3000)]<1 AND [2111.156 .slope(-3000)]<1) AND [50010.241 ]>70

[Pierrel]

Yes i had spaces in the text. Dont know if that interferes.
But can the scanner really calculate backwards with the Slope(-3000) live?
As long as I can find a good, correct filtering of steady state data, i dont have to have it done live, but can apply the filter after logging a session. No big deal.
Thanks!

[eXo3901]

So I've been trying to find/use good filters to avoid bad data when OL tuning the MAF with Wideband.
Setup car in OL with DFCO off. Double checked in scanner to run pure OL mode.

([2111.156.slope(3000)] < 1 AND [2111.156 .slope(-3000)] < 1 ) AND [50010.241 ]>70

With 2111.156 being TPS %, and 50010.241 ECT in Celsius.

Shouldnt that filter out TPS movements bigger than 1% over a period of 3 seconds? And give me steady state data only?
When I apply it to the scanner and start logging, I can see it changing the histograms as soon as I change TPS. And not wait for 3 seconds.

Or should I scan using no filter, and then use filters during playback? Read somewhere that -slope values can only be used in playback?

Also , I seem to be getting different errors depending on which gear I use ?
Thanks!

You would actually be looking at a 6 second time frame. (See link below) At a given time: Slope has been <1 for 3 seconds AND will be <1 for the next 3 seconds. Anytime slope goes above 1 within that 6 second window the data will be excluded.

I have not had good luck with slope and tend to use average instead.

You can create a math parameter for some individual filters and throw them in the charts to visualize them. You are trying to answer a Yes/No (or in scanner terms, 1/0) question.

Yes i had spaces in the text. Dont know if that interferes.
But can the scanner really calculate backwards with the Slope(-3000) live?
As long as I can find a good, correct filtering of steady state data, i dont have to have it done live, but can apply the filter after logging a session. No big deal.
Thanks!

A negative time value is looking at future data and will only work during playback. Delete the filter if you want to watch the live data come in then save/close/reopen the log, paste the filter back in and you should get want you want.

https://www.hptuners.com/help/VCM-Scanner/filters.html

[Sub8]

Sub8 said:
1 Minute Ago
Don't worry about the filtering. Concentrate on getting good quality data by your drive style and road you're using. Single smooth throttle movement and then not moving throttle until vehicle stops accelerating.

Start lite throttle 2nd or 3rd gear ~2000rpm. Then step throttle input up for each subsequent run.

[Pierrel]

You would actually be looking at a 6 second time frame. (See link below) At a given time: Slope has been <1 for 3 seconds AND will be <1 for the next 3 seconds. Anytime slope goes above 1 within that 6 second window the data will be excluded.

I have not had good luck with slope and tend to use average instead.

You can create a math parameter for some individual filters and throw them in the charts to visualize them. You are trying to answer a Yes/No (or in scanner terms, 1/0) question.


A negative time value is looking at future data and will only work during playback. Delete the filter if you want to watch the live data come in then save/close/reopen the log, paste the filter back in and you should get want you want.

https://www.hptuners.com/help/VCM-Scanner/filters.html

That clears things up. Thank you very much!

Sub8 said:
1 Minute Ago
Don't worry about the filtering. Concentrate on getting good quality data by your drive style and road you're using. Single smooth throttle movement and then not moving throttle until vehicle stops accelerating.

Start lite throttle 2nd or 3rd gear ~2000rpm. Then step throttle input up for each subsequent run.

Alright, I will give this a try. Just to clarify, I log every throttle setting individually, And no long driving session, correct?
Thank you very much!

[Sub8]

Well you can do a number of runs in one logging session but make sure to use the charts along side the graphing function.

I usually do 3-5 runs in a recorder at a time during initial set-up / dialling in.

The key is to make sure motor (oil temp) is fully up to operating temp, the intake isn't heat soaked and the ambient temp isn't wildly different when you're working.

Next is a smooth level road without traffic and finally is a delicate and steady right foot!

Higher gears = higher engine load and generally more stable logs but of course vehicle speed quickly becomes high.

[Pierrel]

Well you can do a number of runs in one logging session but make sure to use the charts along side the graphing function.

I usually do 3-5 runs in a recorder at a time during initial set-up / dialling in.

The key is to make sure motor (oil temp) is fully up to operating temp, the intake isn't heat soaked and the ambient temp isn't wildly different when you're working.

Next is a smooth level road without traffic and finally is a delicate and steady right foot!

Higher gears = higher engine load and generally more stable logs but of course vehicle speed quickly becomes high.

Thanks Sub8!
Will take the car out today and fine tune the maf again, and start tuning VVE in OL.
The thing I'm having issues with is when I go Closed loop again, my trims will be off compared to WB trims. I've been trying to read up and get the grasp of tuning the Narrow bands for long tube headers, but haven't fully comprehended it yet.

[eXo3901]

Thanks Sub8!
Will take the car out today and fine tune the maf again, and start tuning VVE in OL.
The thing I'm having issues with is when I go Closed loop again, my trims will be off compared to WB trims. I've been trying to read up and get the grasp of tuning the Narrow bands for long tube headers, but haven't fully comprehended it yet.

If the car will be driven in closed loop using O2?s you?ll want to tune the part throttle area using STFT/O2 feedback. Wideband for WOT. I understand your frustration though. I have tried numerous O2 settings but I always end up slightly lean in closed loop compared to my wideband. My wideband error reads 0% to -4% and my O2 feedback always pulls ~3-4% when in closed loop.

I would set all O2 settings back to stock if they are not, then tune. You should have proportional base and integrator delay tables in the O2 settings. Proportional is usually reduced a bit depending on injector size. Integrator delay is usually increased a bit due to the new O2 location being further downstream in the headers. If you have good O2 oscillation and it drives well I wouldn?t waste to much time matching the O2 to the wideband for part throttle stuff.

[Pierrel]

If the car will be driven in closed loop using O2?s you?ll want to tune the part throttle area using STFT/O2 feedback. Wideband for WOT. I understand your frustration though. I have tried numerous O2 settings but I always end up slightly lean in closed loop compared to my wideband. My wideband error reads 0% to -4% and my O2 feedback always pulls ~3-4% when in closed loop.

I would set all O2 settings back to stock if they are not, then tune. You should have proportional base and integrator delay tables in the O2 settings. Proportional is usually reduced a bit depending on injector size. Integrator delay is usually increased a bit due to the new O2 location being further downstream in the headers. If you have good O2 oscillation and it drives well I wouldn?t waste to much time matching the O2 to the wideband for part throttle stuff.

Thank you!
I am imagining this camshaft should get to run good in CL all the time. Ive tried running it in OL below 2000 rpm and with a 1.050 PE setting, and have had almost no bucking/surging at all during light throttle.

Oh, and I believed tuning with a Wideband would be better/more detailed than with the o2 sensors, but thanks to you I've realized that it would only make my STFT's changes bigger or offset, and probably not help with driveability?
All my o2 settings are stock except the "Fuel - oxygen sensors - Airflow (Low flow) table which is slightly smaller than stock. This was put there in an old tune, and not by me.
I can literally feel the fuel swings in the car, especially at 1000-1600 rpm. Its almost like it rocks back and forth. If i observe my passenger, they move back and forth in their seat. It should not be spark related, with a constant spark verified in the VCM Scanner.

Thats the thing, its not driving that great, yet. I need to go back and run STFT tuning part throttle, and then im sure i can do lots of changes overall.
Sure, its an 8 deg overlap cam, and not all can be tuned out. But i believe I can get it much better than what it currently is at.

Ive attached my latest Closed loop tune, and a picture of something looking wierd with the Narrowbands. This was during Open loop running, but still the NB's swing and act irratic sometimes.

Thank you for all your help and support!

[eXo3901]

So in OL it drives ok? Then in CL it is bucking and surging?

I would not worry about what the NB are doing while in open loop.

The better tuners here can probably spot something going on, but they will need a log. If you could, post the actual log instead of just screenshots.

[Pierrel]

So in OL it drives ok? Then in CL it is bucking and surging?

I would not worry about what the NB are doing while in open loop.

The better tuners here can probably spot something going on, but they will need a log. If you could, post the actual log instead of just screenshots.

Yes, in OL it drives pretty good.
In CL, at higher gears, it feels like Im pulling a big bag of potatoes bouncing on the ground. At lower geards, say 1 or 2, the seatbelt keeps me in the seat (almost that bad), bucking badly. I cannot just leave it in gear and it will pull at idle. When rolling, and pushing the clutch in, the RPMs stay at 1200 rpm until the car speed is 0 kph.
Also Im getting a buck at tip in on the throttle.

When reversing (during the last 30 seconds of the "drive home" file), I can easily reverse up a hill without working the throttle. But when going forward i have to slip the clutch slightly with higher RPM's to get going, or it will bog down.

2.0 CLDRIVE 2.hpt
Drive home CL DFCO on.hpl
Current tune after STFT adjusting the MAF curve. And a log in closed loop driving, with DFCO on.

I appreciate all the help and guidance!

[Pierrel]

Alright, i went at it 2 nights ago.

As a pure trial and error effort, I made 2 tune files, 1 of which had increased timing (34-40deg), and one with low timing(20-22deg) in the low load situations, at below 2000RPM.
No matter which tune i ran, it felt pretty much the same. Like dragging a bag of potatoes behind the car. No surging (or change in Cyl.Airmass), but this hesitation feeling coming and going at certain points.

Sadly, i managed not to save the scan file, but atleast I took a photo of it while looking over it.
Im starting to think there is something going on with my o2 sensors? As soon as the o2s arent mirroring each other, the car begins to buck.
Maybe thats also why it, if i run OL below 2000 rpm, with PE settings of 1.050, calms down?
Dont mind the "EQ error" as i didnt have the Wideband connected.

Thank you!

[eXo3901]

Logs should auto save to Documents\HP Tuners\VCM Scanner\Logs.