LS Swapped Solstice - E67 Info

[Speedyzee]

Hey hey; I run an automotive shop and do general and high performance stuff - a lot of Holley Dominator/Terminator stuff, and some basic LS swaps; I've got a customer's LS swapped Solstice in - it was put together and running at one point, but somewhere along the line it started having issues. It was at another shop for approx 18 months and they weren't able to get it figured. Once I got into it, it had all sorts of harness issues - apparently it was a professional harness, bought buy the owner. I'm not sure I'd say it was professional anything - the first problem were numerous bare wires in the harness that, depending on how the harness was moved, would pull the 5V ref down to 0, or moved another way, feed battery voltage into the 5V line, into the ECU. Moving on, harness completely gone over, cleaned up and verified, and it runs well, no codes other than the cam/crank not learned - I haven't learned it yet, lol. The issue I'm having, is the ECU won't give me 12V out on the X1 26 wire - I have the trans set to Man in the tune, and the Clutch Position Switch disabled (until I can verify that bit is tied in properly). If I use any of my scanners, I can see the data in the ECU and Key On, the Ignition parameter is on, when I flip the key to Crank, Starter Relay Control Parameter goes from off to on, I can hear at least one relay in the box click, but no power out of the #26. I did check to see if it pulled a ground, instead, but no dice. As I said, I'm more aftermarket EFI, but I do know that that ECU might have various OS's that can change the pin out; so I'm wondering if someone has put a different one in it, or if the ECU got janked from the voltage issues it was dealing with. Is there a way to tell from the OS number I get in HP Tuners, what that software is originally from, so I can look up the actual wiring by the vehicle? That way I can be sure I'm looking for the starter output in the right place? Sorry if it's a dumb question, but I'm gonna ask it anyways. Thanks for any help....

[blindsquirrel]

Take the VIN displayed in the Tune Details window (click on the VIN, then CTRL+C), paste it into the TIS tool, look up what the latest ECM cal is for that VIN. While you're there, make sure doing the same check for the TCM shows no file available, meaning the ECM would've come from a manual trans donor.

This may not be any help if the ECM has an older-than-current OS in it.

[blindsquirrel]

Do you have 'real' scan tools that can show live data PIDs? You should be able to look at the starter relay output state. If that toggles when you go to crank but you still have no output, and you've verified there's no short to ground between X1 26 and relay pin 85, then dead ECM.

[blindsquirrel]

...if the PID does not toggle in crank position then some condition required to enable it is not being met.

edit: Um, nevermind. Re-reading I see you checked that PID.

[Speedyzee]

Hmmm.... The VIN displayed is the VIN for the Solstice; meaning someone wrote the VIN into the ECU? For what it's worth, the OS kicked back from the ECU is 12632122 - nothing close to the ones listed on the TIS.
It does run, so I'm assuming the OS is correct for the engine..... I've got a good used ECU coming tomorrow, can I upload the complete tune from what I pulled from his and try it, or will that not copy over the OS? I do have the capability at the shop to do a dealer level program of the ECU; I'm assuming that if the replacement ECU is from say a trailblazer I'll have to start there, then his tune from HP? Thanks for any advice

[TheMechanic]

You will need the complete OS software for the LS in this PCM. The Solstice OS won't work. Once you have the right base GM software then you can use HPTuners to modify it.
Sounds like a kick ass project. Like a mini AC Cobra. Got pics?

[blindsquirrel]

Write-entire with HP Tuners will leave behind 2 segments untouched from whatever was there before - if the old segments are incompatible with the new base OS you get no throttle, or weird ghost issues where it only goes into reduced power once a month... not fun.

Is there anybody that specializes in this platform? I'd be worried about communication problems if you use the whole OS from a different platform. But there may be a combo that's been tested and known to work.

Post the file. I don't get any search matches for 12632122.

[Speedyzee]

Thanks for the info guys - I'll just say it was running at one point, no comm issues or codes; but I'll assume the harness started messing up, and the previous shops just got hack-happy with it - I feel bad for the customer who's been without it for two years now. I have had it running - runs awesome, all gauges, etc work and it's a little spooky (fun), but it won't send the crank signal out of the ECU to close the crank relay.

I'm new to this forum - I'll try to attach the files; I don't have any pics of the entire car (I save those for when they're done lol) but I'll try to attach the mess of the harness and a "How not to attach your fuse box" found a few wires in there that had screws put thru them

I'm not one to bash others...but I hate seeing people pay for stuff like this - Last year I went thru the LS swapped 81 Camaro that was this customer's other car that the same previous shop had been hacking at - got it right, so now to fix this one.

I appreciate any feedback on what you find in that file - but if the ECU is dinked (funny feeling it is) am I correct that if I can't find out what the current OS is to be able to load the replacement ECU with the same OEM software before uploading the tune I have from this one, if they aren't the same, this pre-existing tune won't work?
And if so, is there any reason i couldn't load the replacement ECU with the OEM OS for say a 6L Trailblazer, shut off the vats and any MILs and tune it from there?
Sorry for the questions, and I know I could just put a "cool" push button hard wired to the crank relay, but that's not the way it should be....


2009 Solstice Original Tune.hpt


IMG_0746.jpgIMG_0743.jpg

[Shrek]

... VIN displayed is the VIN for the Solstice; meaning someone wrote the VIN into the ECU? For what it's worth, the OS kicked back from the ECU is 12632122 - nothing close to the ones listed on the TIS ...

Make sure that you carefully save a non-edited version of that E67 calibration.

That calibration is the proverbial "unicorn".

When LS1 Edit and LS2 Edit tuning software was still available, the guru behind its development (Ken Kelly) did some one of a kind calibration work for a shop that was pioneering LS conversions in Solstice and Sky vehicles.

The base OS (12632122) is from an early production 2009 CTS-V. It was modified by Kelly to communicate with BCM and IPC in the Solstice / Sky vehicles. Some people believe that this very special calibration was a marriage of a CTS-V calibration and a TBSS calibration.

Whether Kelly did this work directly in Hex, or whether he used a never released version of LS2 Edit - nobody knows.

[Speedyzee]

Ok; thanks for that info - I always save the first thing I pull from a customers ECU - but how do I export everything out of the current ECU if I want to try a replacement?

As blindsquirrel said, I can't just take what I've pulled out of the current ECU and load it into another and have it work?

What was the "base" calibration that I would have to load to start? Or is there a way to export everything from the original ECU?

I guess GM is different - a few years ago I swapped (according to the customer) the first 3.6 4 cam Pentastar V6 into a 2008 Jeep that originally had a 3.8 in it - with some can buss work, I was able to have the 2015 engine ECU get along with all the rest of the 2008 BCM, IPC etc.... Guess I got lucky on that one, lol.

I appreciate all the info guys

[blindsquirrel]

You could move that special OS into a new/different ECM, if you had a way to know what the two untouchable segments were from so you could get those loaded onto the ECM first, before the write-entire. From the sound of things those two segments are not going to be the same as anything in an off the shelf (i.e., SPS-programmable) calibration.

Actually, you can get the CalID of those two segments from a scanner logfile, they're listed in the Details tab even though they don't appear in the editor. Can't see what's inside them though.

[Speedyzee]

So those 2 segments would have to be present in the original base cal that was loaded into the ECU before the tune went in?

Would they be present in an OEM cal for an early 2009 CTS-V, and then this unicorn calibration could fill in the rest?

Or are these 2 segments the ones that potentially Ken Kelly modified himself - as in he wrote his own base cal?

If I'm asking dumb questions, laugh if ya want, lol, but while this is obviously new to me, I'm def curious & would like to figure it out...

(Looking at fancy red push buttons as we speak, lol)

[blindsquirrel]

Post a log file. Don't need to show it doing anything, just needs to collect the controller info so we can see the CalIDs for Slave Operating System and Engine.

[Speedyzee]

I attached a log file - let me know if you need any other info; thanks for the help so far

2009 Solstice Original Tune Log 1.hpl

[blindsquirrel]

Yeah those have been monkeyed too. It shows the same 12605811 for Slave & Engine segments - GM doesn't do that.

[blindsquirrel]

Wow, the CVNs are even identical, didn't notice that at first. So weird.

[Kyle_Customizer]

I ran into one of these a few years ago. Client had a ls2 6l90 swapped solstice. The calibration needed alot of work to get it right. My customer had the Ls2 edit software and interface cable for the car. Ken was nice enough to give me a few pointers to get it done correctly. HPT will not work with the calibration Ken had installed. LS2 Edit was required. Once I got the hang of the software it was easy. I did use HPT to data log...just had to use LS2 Edit to change the calibration. Using LS2 edit software really makes you appreciate all the tools HPT integrated in their software.

[Speedyzee]

At the risk of asking a dumb question (who am I kidding; ZFG, lol) would having the LS2 software allow a person to extract everything from the current ECU and load it into a replacement ECU? This one runs well now that I've repaired all the harness issues - except for the fact that I suspect the previous hacked/shorted out harness cooked the ECU output to the crank relay. I spoke with the customer today who was happy to hear it's running finally, he said the ECU was from somewhere in Ohio - Autowerks I think; is this the Ken person I've heard of?

[Shrek]

... Autowerks I think; is this the Ken person I've heard of? ...

No sir. Ken Kelly was the owner (or one of the owners) of a no longer available tuning software company (like HP Tuners). They marketed two primary products - "LS1 Edit" for Gen 3 (24x) platforms, and "LS2" Edit for Gen 4 (58x) platforms.

Autowerks specialized in LS conversions for the Solstice / Sky vehicles - and Mr. Kelly may have assisted them with specialized ECM software. There was another shop doing these conversions around the same time - I cannot recall their business name - Mr. Kelly may have assisted them also.

[Speedyzee]

Right on - the customer is going to try to get another ECU from Autowerks - we'd both rather it be right as opposed to having to wire in a push button to crank it.