Gen 2 F-150 tuning guides/schooling/learning?

[DrivenByDemons]

Guys I searched, I swear I've spent hours trying to avoid this thread.

I've been tinkering with tuning and watched a ton of the goat rope guy on youtube trying to understand how to optimize tuning for a given engine. So I buy an MPVI2 thinking I'm going to log and tweak and log and tweak and I find out the goat rope GM info doesn't translate well to Ford. So I came here and I've been reading and really found a lot of good info and some REALLY helpful posters but most of what I see is for boosted Mustangs that include MAF and 3 bar MAP sensors etc... My truck is staying N/A and is MAP only. I'm thinking that's awesome cause it will just make things simpler but I start hearing about Fords inferred everything and coefficients and I'm blowing my mind up.

Most of the paid Coyote training I see online has fine print about excluding gen 2 and gen 3 and not teaching speed density. Am I wrong or isn't MAP metering speed density? Can someone just point me in the right direction to start learning N/A MAP only Coyotes? The software isn't my problem. HP's suite is a piece of cake to get working and use. I can log and edit and am super comfortable in the interface. It's all that data.

Thanks in advance.

[[email protected]]

A boosted car does not need a map sensor and you can run a lot of boost through a MAF these days . Fords strategy is all torque based , and everything else is inferred like you said with quadratic equations and such. Honestly i cheat i had mine tuned and then started messing with it from there. This stuff is super deep and will hurt your brain LOL. Everything you find here is reverse engineered over the life of the coyote and is scattered everywhere. The search is your friend depending on how deep you want to get into this. The power of HPtuners is incredible and you just need to do things one at a time and when something isnt right you can search and or ask questions. I think paying for the tuning school course will be your best bet if you have the money.

[DrivenByDemons]

Regarding MAP, coyotes don?t have a map sensor. It uses some algorithm that predicts MAP based on rpm and MAF flow rate and what is essentially a pump curve. If you change the throttle body, intake manifold, etc, it no longer predicts MAP accurately. That?s why boosted applications require an actual map sensor.

See man, first reply and I'm getting the same problems. No offense but I'm 100% positive my truck has a MAP sensor and does NOT have a MAF sensor. I'm dangerous enough to understand why boosted engines can "out-blow" a MAF and need a MAP to measure pressure above barometric. I swear to you. My gen 2 5.0 in the F-150 has no MAF, only MAP.

What are you really wanting to do?

Optimize my engine. Get that sucker tweaked for every nuance that applies to MY engine. Ford has their calibration and it's built for worst case scenario regarding hardware variances. I want my calibration to account for every molecule of air and fuel accordingly. I'm exaggerating (a little) but that's what I want.

[DrivenByDemons]

A boosted car does not need a map sensor and you can run a lot of boost through a MAF these days . Fords strategy is all torque based , and everything else is inferred like you said with quadratic equations and such. Honestly i cheat i had mine tuned and then started messing with it from there. This stuff is super deep and will hurt your brain LOL. Everything you find here is reverse engineered over the life of the coyote and is scattered everywhere. The search is your friend depending on how deep you want to get into this. The power of HPtuners is incredible and you just need to do things one at a time and when something isnt right you can search and or ask questions. I think paying for the tuning school course will be your best bet if you have the money.

I want to hurt my brain but in an organized manner. This is what I do. I troubleshoot advanced communications equipment for a living. I have a degree in EE. Reverse engineering is my friend. I'm also getting older and am willing to pay for a course if it's organized and worth it. This is just a hobby to me. I have no intention of getting into tuning for work. I just like knowing stuff and fixing stuff and tinkering. I DON'T like throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

When I pull up my cal in HP tuners there is so much detailed info labeled so nicely and organized. Where's the documentation for that? I can work with that if need be.

[[email protected]]

Yes you have a map sensor, the ford trucks are speed density. The tuning school has a book but does not cover SD and online interactive training as well. Im not sure how much info exist for speed density tuning for ford trucks. Mustangs for whatever reason use a maf and i have seen them well over 1200hp. Old maf sensors did not work well for boost afaik but modern ones are much better. But the new gt 500 is speed density and so is the ecoboost. No documentation, everything here was reverse engineered through trial and tribulation. Lasota racing has a book out maybe have a look at that, its the coyote cookbook.

[mattlinke]

If you?re staying na and aren?t changing the intake manifold itself likely you won?t need to change the tq tables or the speed density at all. I didn?t need to change it much except for up top with a cobra jet intake manifold. Biggest gains and drivability changes for me were a dedicated e85 tune with more spark advance and transmission tuning. I moved the vct a little but I honestly can?t say if it?s as optimal as it should be without a dyno.

To tune the speed density though I used the speed density calculator and treated it like a ?vve ? table on a gm. Fuel trims vs map vs rpm on the table @mapped point. All my trims hover between 0 and like +-3% now.

Hope that helps. The rest of tuning, spark, torque based things, trans all translates from mustang pretty well. I imagine more in depth speed density info is more highly available in eco boost land but I never really looked.

[DrivenByDemons]

Yes you have a map sensor, the ford trucks are speed density. The tuning school has a book but does not cover SD and online interactive training as well. Im not sure how much info exist for speed density tuning for ford trucks. Mustangs for whatever reason use a maf and i have seen them well over 1200hp. Old maf sensors did not work well for boost afaik but modern ones are much better. But the new gt 500 is speed density and so is the ecoboost. No documentation, everything here was reverse engineered through trial and tribulation. Lasota racing has a book out maybe have a look at that, its the coyote cookbook.

Already checked out the Lasota site. They don't cover speed density.

[DrivenByDemons]

If you?re staying na and aren?t changing the intake manifold itself likely you won?t need to change the tq tables or the speed density at all. I didn?t need to change it much except for up top with a cobra jet intake manifold. Biggest gains and drivability changes for me were a dedicated e85 tune with more spark advance and transmission tuning. I moved the vct a little but I honestly can?t say if it?s as optimal as it should be without a dyno.

To tune the speed density though I used the speed density calculator and treated it like a ?vve ? table on a gm. Fuel trims vs map vs rpm on the table @mapped point. All my trims hover between 0 and like +-3% now.

Hope that helps. The rest of tuning, spark, torque based things, trans all translates from mustang pretty well. I imagine more in depth speed density info is more highly available in eco boost land but I never really looked.

That does help. Thanks! It seems like most guys start with those trims and go from there. That's what I really need. A launching point. I'll play around with the scanner later.

I also watched a few of the HP tuner training vids and the VCT adjustments are super valuable but gotta get that dyno time. I guess I'm just going to have to spend a lot of time finding crumbs as I do this.

[[email protected]]

i have some tunes from blown f150's if that will help. Its how i learned the little i do know. I gathered every tune i could find.

[DrivenByDemons]

i have some tunes from blown f150's if that will help. Its how i learned the little i do know. I gathered every tune i could find.

Sure, I'll take a compare look at them. I'm doing just what you said and gathering simple tunes as I can. Thanks!

[Samoflan]

I feel you. While I don't have the same engine as you. I have a Ford Ranger with a 4.0 SOHC. There is nearly nothing or any examples on tuning these engines. Even though it's the same motor that was in the V6 Mustang. Constantly searching for scraps to help me out.

[mattlinke]

I did an explorer 4.0 (2006). It?s pretty straightforward. Biggest thing on that too was the trans adjustments. I put it on e85 and gave it some decent timing and it pulled pretty good. It?s since been sitting in the garage cause I bought my f150. If you?d like I can try to dig up some of the files I had on that truck when I?m back at that computer.

[DrivenByDemons]

Damn, this truck is complicated. Been staring and comparing and logging and etc... I have an SCT canned tune with the same OSID as my stock file. I figured a canned tune must be pretty basic so it would be a good place to start comparisons. When I do a compare and look at the log I get this but you can see there is no difference. Why is the log telling me something is different there when it's not?

MAP.jpg

[mattlinke]

ive never used that log actually. I always opened a compare file and just looked for the highlighted tables for what was different. what are you trying to do with it? I might even have a file from when it was stock with some optimizations that I could send you that worked pretty decent for me. its been a while and id have to dig through the 5000 iterations I went through lol but I should have something. its currently on e85, cobrajet/mono and 47lb injectors so what its currently on wont be much use compare wise but I should have an older file.

[DrivenByDemons]

ive never used that log actually. I always opened a compare file and just looked for the highlighted tables for what was different. what are you trying to do with it? I might even have a file from when it was stock with some optimizations that I could send you that worked pretty decent for me. its been a while and id have to dig through the 5000 iterations I went through lol but I should have something. its currently on e85, cobrajet/mono and 47lb injectors so what its currently on wont be much use compare wise but I should have an older file.

Not doing anything in particular. Just learning and dicking around with the software. Since there's no real guide for these trucks my only option is lots of searching and comparing. The compare log makes it easy to find things but this one threw me.

I also got curious why there are so many different mapped points defined so I decided to log the first 13 (IMRC open) to see what was active most of the time. That was a trip. LOL This thing switches between mapped points like crazy.

[8586GTS]

I am also curious about this map/maf sensor coyote dilemma. I contacted HP on the F150 training with no avail. I have 16' Mustang and I have seen the enable map sensor option but I'm not sure how it would work if it isn't wired for it, or maybe is it something we can look into wiring in? Would it be possible to see how Shelby did it in their supercharged coyote F150? I'm almost sure they are running the factory ecu with a map sensor. Does anybody have or can get that tune file so we can dissect? I think the problem wouldn't be the speed density tuning because all other stand alone systems are tuned via speed density, I just think a manifold mounted map sensor is more accurate. Here is the Shelby F150 I'm talking about. Thank you for all your help.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...as-two-raptors

[Ranger Coyote]

I have been dealing with correcting the map/maf sensor ratio on a supercharged mustang and it all comes down to the expected throttle angle vs actual angle and effective area. I have a tuning guide i'm working on releasing to help with the inconsistency
you see