Setting up brand new E38 for crate LS3

[88mdok]

Hi All,

How do I do the very first write to the ECU for a brand new, fresh out of the box E38, GM part no. 12633238 ?

I purchased it new thinking this is what I would need for my LS3 engine swap into my Toyota 86. Driveline is basically all done, exhaust almost finished and now I'm in the startup stage.

As it is going into a non-GM car and is for a new crate engine I would be wanting to put in my 86 VIN. There is no 'original' or donor car VIN to speak of.

I think I read somewhere only dealers can do an initial setup of a brand new ECU? I've been trying to search the forum, FAQ's, online etc but nowhere really indicates what to do on a fresh out of the box ecu. All info seems to point towards how to do it if haveing a donor car or donor ecu first, which obviously I don't have.

I'm on the Sunshine Coast, Qld, Australia. The local Holden dealers are now non-existent and are of no use/help. The second you tell them what you are trying to do they switch off and have no interest.

I bought a MPVI2 so I could do everything that is needed, alas now stuck on the very first step. I'm happy to mail off the E38 to someone if I have to, to get it fired up, first programming, VATS removal, startup tune etc. My car is nothing special. Bog standard LS3 with headers, intake, and a stealth cam. I guess as far as the E38 is concerned it is going to think it is a Holden Commodore???

Cheers,
Matt

[blindsquirrel]

This requires a programming tool (J2534) that works with GM TIS/SPS/TLC/whatever they are calling it this week. The way GM programming works, you have to give it a valid VIN from a real vehicle that GM really built for it to pull down the calibration (a Toyota VIN will not work). You have to do this backwards - pick a vehicle that used the components that most closely match what you want to build (auto/manual, throttle body/APP parts, etc.), harvest a VIN from one of those vehicles, then give that VIN to SPS for it to load a stock calibration for that vehicle into your ECM. Then make changes to that stock file in HPT. Some things you cannot change after the fact, like auto to manual or vice versa, or parts of the code that control ETC hardware as those parts are in the two ECM segments HPT can't access.

A GM Gen4 ECM tune file in HPT format contains only 6 segments. The GM calibration contains 8. HPT does not read/write the Slave Operating System or Engine segments.

screenshot.06-02-2019 19.53.32 numbered.png

[blindsquirrel]

Also note that 12633238 will only work with calibrations for mid-2010 and newer VINs.

[88mdok]

Also note that 12633238 will only work with calibrations for mid-2010 and newer VINs.

Great! Thank you for such a great reply!

Matt

[77c10]

Can you do this yourself for a reasonable price or do you have to have a dealer do it?

[blindsquirrel]

Any random Joe off the street who wants to can buy a pass-through programming tool and a SPS subscription and do dealer-type flashing at home. There are cheap clone tools that kinda-sorta work if you hold your mouth just right, but the aggravation factor is high. Not great for your mental health when you've never done this before, never seen what's supposed to happen so you can figure out why it's not working. Better tools with fewer glitches cost too much to mess with for a one time only thing or only for your one car.

If you want to do a bunch of them as a business it's not prohibitive. It's not uncommon to find independent shops these days that can do real module flashing in-house. If they can't, they end up having to send out 1 of every 4 or 5 cars they work on to the dealer to get something programmed, and that's throwing money (time) away. I mean, you can't replace a window switch in anything under 10 years old without the need for programming, and the setup to SPS a window switch is the same setup that does ECMs, you're just selecting a different module from the list.

[Gpargament]

im curious and ive never done a swap, sorry if this is a silly question, but can he not just download a stock tune from the repository and flash that? im very curious about this as well, as I want to swap an lsx into a c3 corvette.

[blindsquirrel]

screenshot.06-02-2019 19.53.32 numbered.png

Sure, you can, the software won't stop you from doing it wrong. But it will leave behind whatever was in the ECM from before for the Slave Operating System and Engine segments. If those two segments are not compatible with either your ETC hardware or the rest of the OS (like, say a Grand Prix V6 ECM write-entired with a Silverado file), you're screwed. The only way to write those two segments is with some flavor of flash tool that will connect to SPS and flash in a stock GM calibration.

Or... maybe there are other tuning tools that can get into the secret segments. HPT is not one of those tools. The only ones I know are HPT and GM's dealer stuff.

[77c10]

I'm thinking this might be the cause of my VSS issues. Is there a go to place to send these off to or does everyone just go to their local dealer?

[blindsquirrel]

Search ebay for your ECM service number and 'programmed to your VIN', or some variation of similar search terms. Most used E38s are dirt cheap since they were used in everything for so many years.

If you are not locked into a specific operating system/platform (swap vehicle, so compatibility with other factory modules not required?), then do as I describe above - pick a platform that used compatible hardware, get a VIN from something that used the right combo, look up what service number is used with that application, go to ebay and buy one pre-flashed to the VIN you supply the seller.

[chrisxiv]

Search ebay for your ECM service number and 'programmed to your VIN', or some variation of similar search terms. Most used E38s are dirt cheap since they were used in everything for so many years.

If you are not locked into a specific operating system/platform (swap vehicle, so compatibility with other factory modules not required?), then do as I describe above - pick a platform that used compatible hardware, get a VIN from something that used the right combo, look up what service number is used with that application, go to ebay and buy one pre-flashed to the VIN you supply the seller.

This is exactly what i plan to do with an e38 ecm / 6l80 t43 tcm in a 1973 monte carlo a customer just brought to me to get running for him. The problem is mismatched parts and incompatibility issues.

Do you know if the ebay seller will be able to flash the ECM with the VATS removed from the tune? From my experience, they will generally not do this... but Obviously that?s what HPT is for from there.

One question i have is when you swap one of thesw e38 ecm?s into a swapped vehicle thats not using a BCM, is there a procedure that needs to be followed so the serial dlc doesnt lose connection with the modules, causing a no start issue with the vats?

[blindsquirrel]

If there is no BCM and VATS not disabled you will get a permanent no start, as the BCM is required to make VATS function. It must be disabled. The BCM is the part of the system that reads the stock key cylinder and checks that the password is valid and then allows the ECM to crank/run.

Folks selling pre-flashed ECMs for a reasonable price are just putting a stock calibration in there with GM SPS and a bench harness. There are a few that will make changes like that but they will charge you for the licensing credits plus some labor on top, and if you are going to have to pay to license it again yourself when you get it, I don't see what good spending that extra money is doing you.

[chrisxiv]

If there is no BCM and VATS not disabled you will get a permanent no start, as the BCM is required to make VATS function. It must be disabled. The BCM is the part of the system that reads the stock key cylinder and checks that the password is valid and then allows the ECM to crank/run.

Folks selling pre-flashed ECMs for a reasonable price are just putting a stock calibration in there with GM SPS and a bench harness. There are a few that will make changes like that but they will charge you for the licensing credits plus some labor on top, and if you are going to have to pay to license it again yourself when you get it, I don't see what good spending that extra money is doing you.

I see what you are saying. But the car would actually start and run when it was brought to me. The issue was with the TCM mismatch(not shifting properly and doing all kinds of weird stuff). I looked up the VIN that was on the ecm after i did the firsr Read entire and compared it to whats on the GM TIS website, and sure enough the TCM segments/OS are not compatible with the ECM OS. I found a tune File from the same year(2012 Camaro automatic) with the OS that matched up with the VIN on the ecm. The os numbers were different for the TCM. After i flashed it with a write entire. I?m getting cranking but no start. The commanded AFR in the scanner shows like 3.4 commanded. I know this has nothing to do with the fueling tables, because its a stock tune and a stock engine. Did I permanently lock myself out with the write entire?

[blindsquirrel]

Please see my posts above about 6 HPT segments versus 8 GM segments. You can't flash Gen 4 ECMs like that.

[blindsquirrel]

Just because the CalIDs on the TIS site don't match what you currently have, that doesn't mean they aren't the right ones for that combo/application. They get updated frequently and the numbers in SPS change with every update while the numbers in the ECM/TCM don't change unless they get the updates applied.

[88mdok]

Just as an FYI, I ended up getting this done by a supplier called "Commodore Hackers" on the Gold Coast, Qld. They did whatever they needed to do to get the first write/setup of the brand new e38 loaded and since then I have been tuning it myself as per normal with HP Tuners.

Was $130 AUD including return freight. Took less than a week all done with mailing it to them and getting it back.

There is a random VIN they've used from a 2016 Commodore manual which is good enough for what I need. VATS removed and whatever else needed for first start etc.